In this episode of Home: The Second Story Podcast, we sit down with Greg from Central Kentucky to unpack the twists and turns of his custom home build during the height of COVID. We begin by learning why Greg and his wife chose to relocate to Kentucky — wanting to be closer to family and create a calm, settled place for their four young children. With prior experience building two homes through production builders and Greg’s background in commercial construction, they felt confident enough to tackle a custom build without an architect, trusting a local builder recommended by their realtor.
As we dive deeper, Greg shares how quickly that confidence faded. Due diligence turned out to be the biggest lesson learned. Early on, they relied on the builder to handle both the design and construction. Instead of detailed construction documents, they received rough plans that left too much open to interpretation. Because of supply chain delays and poor planning, the house sat framed but unfinished through an entire Kentucky winter, leading to stress over moisture damage and scheduling nightmares.
Greg describes the reality of acting as his own project manager while juggling a full-time job and a growing family. He and his wife took on tasks like creating finish schedules, selecting materials, and coordinating with trades. As the builder struggled to manage trades and schedules, Greg’s frustration grew — not because he didn’t know better, but because he didn’t want to create conflict. Eventually, they stripped work from the builder’s scope just to get the house livable, closing with only a certificate of occupancy and managing painting, trim, and cabinetry themselves through local contractors.
Despite the setbacks, Greg reminds us that there’s still satisfaction in seeing their vision come to life — a spacious home with personal design touches and a serene lot for their boys to run free. Looking back, he underlines the importance of vetting everyone thoroughly — from the builder to every subcontractor — and not assuming base competence without proof. He urges anyone taking on a custom home to ask hard questions up front, check references, understand local trades, and accept that a true custom build demands both time and contingency.
We wrap up recognizing that while this experience was rough, it didn’t have to be. Working with the right professionals, asking tough questions, and having a plan with enough budget and schedule buffer can keep a custom build from becoming a cautionary tale. For Greg and his family, the stress ultimately paid off in a home they now love — but they’ll need a few more years (and bourbons) before doing it again.
Voiceover (00:03):
Everyone says how horrible it'll be to renovate or build your house — we're here to say it doesn't have to be that way.
Join three seasoned architects as they interview homeowners who recently completed a large project and ask them one simple question: what do you know now that you wish you knew before you started?
Welcome to Home: The Second Story Podcast.
Taylor Davis (00:26):
Welcome to Home: The Second Story. We are three residential architects sharing real conversations with homeowners who've taken on custom home or renovation projects. If you haven't already, check out our first episode to hear more about us and why we're doing this.
I'm Taylor Davis from TPD Architect in Birmingham, Alabama, and today, I'm joined by my co-hosts.
Sheri Scott (00:46):
Sheri Scott of Springhouse Architects in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:50):
And I'm Marilyn Moedinger of Runcible Studios in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and Boston, Massachusetts. Today, we're joined by Greg from Central Kentucky. Welcome.
Greg (01:00):
Thank you.
Sheri Scott (01:01):
Hi, Greg. So, we're going to start just getting kind of an orientation to your project, we don't know anything about it. Where is your project located?
Greg (01:12):
We’re just down the road from you actually in central Kentucky just a little bit south of Lexington.
Sheri Scott (01:16):
Nice, okay. And what was your project? A new build, renovation?
Greg (01:22):
Yeah, it was a new build “custom home”. So, yeah, it was interesting.
Marilyn Moedinger (01:28):
We'll get into that, won't we?
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (01:30):
Yeah, I guess so.
When did you start your project, and then when did you move in?
Greg (01:36):
So, we started in 2021, roughly spring 2021. So, if you cast your minds back to when that was, it was peak COVID, and we finished just before 2023. So, we moved in actually in 2023 in the winter, so it was labor of love, I guess you could call it.
Sheri Scott (01:54):
(Chuckles) Yes, a long one. What was the approximate size, style? What can you tell us about it?
Greg (02:02s):
It's pretty traditional, it's not like colonial or foursquare or anything like that. It's just a traditional kind of on a walkout basement. And it's like 4,200 with the walkout basement and the second and first stories.
Sheri Scott (02:17):
And what did you do in terms of design? Did you work with an architect? What scope was the architect?
Greg (02:26):
So, unfortunately, we did what we thought was due diligence, but ultimately, that turned out not to be quite the right term, I guess you could call it that. So, we didn’t work with an architect, I'm afraid, we worked with the builder who was the “architect” and kind of took from there, so-
Sheri Scott (02:47):
This'll be a great conversation because a lot of people do start there.
Greg (02:50):
Yes, yes.
Sheri Scott (02:51):
Okay, great. Thank you.
Marilyn Moedinger (02:53):
So yeah, why don't you start at the beginning. Maybe tell us how you decided to go that route, what was the impetus for the project?
Greg (03:00):
It was 2021, I was kind of between deciding if I was going to move to another state, another city, and stay with my current company or I was going to start looking for a new role basically. I'm actually in construction personally and kind of know how everything's supposed to work.
So, at that time, we were kind of all working remotely and there was a lot of different opportunities out there. And my wife, who's from central Kentucky, we were living in Tennessee previous to that we were living in Texas.
She was like, “Why don't we just move back to be close to our parents?” Because we were pregnant and we already had three children so it was kind of like, “Yeah, why don't we?” I'm running out of excuses; I can't make any more excuses.
[Laughter]
So, that was the reason, the impetus to move too because my in-laws … to be where she grew up and I was kind of getting to the point in my life where I was like, I don't need the big city, I don't need the bright lights, I don't need the bars, I don't need all this kind of stuff. We need somewhere calm, settled, suitable for our boys growing up. And that was really the reason why we decided to try to pick up sticks and relocate to Kentucky.
Marilyn Moedinger (04:07):
And you decided on a custom build or a new build, so tell us about that. How that process got started for you and you made that decision.
Greg (04:15):
So, we'd previously built two homes, not custom, but from track builders, one in Texas in Houston, and one in Nashville in Tennessee. And we kind of just thought, well, we're kind of a little bit dangerous, we kind of know what we're doing now.
I work in construction, my wife's kind of got a very high level of design aesthetic, we kind of know how things work, finish schedules, what you need to do, when you need to do it, all that kind of thing.
So, we were thinking well, maybe we can kind of work with something a bit more of a custom, and then we can kind of own and control it a little bit and kind of make some changes because we wanted it to be kind of move-in ready, and we didn't want to have to do a ton of renovations and a ton of work which is basically what we did.
We got it to where we wanted to be in those previous two homes, and then we left. So, we never really lived in our own home for so many years. So, that was the impetus to do that.
Marilyn Moedinger (05:06):
You said you know just enough to be dangerous (laughs), so you decided to kind of branch out a little bit, do this custom home. So, tell us about the builders. So, you did not have an architect, you worked directly with the builder, tell us about that process and how that happened.
Greg (05:23):
So, essentially, we kind of reached out to some local realtors in the town where we are and we were kind of talking about who we could choose where we were. So, we basically had picked a lot, essentially in a subdivision, an HOA.
But at that time, there was only really two builders building and we didn't want to go with either of them. And our realtor at the time had said, “Oh, hey, I know this other person,” and we were kind of like, “Oh, okay.”
Like I said, it was COVID, there wasn't a ton of activity. Even the builders that were track builders weren't building very, very quickly, there was kind of drawing everything out. So, we were kind of between a rock and a hard place because we wanted to get built.
We were renting in basically a one-story ranch, 1,500 square feet and there was a baby on the way. There was four of us, five of us in the house, and there was going to be a six, little baby coming soon. So, we were like, “Well, can we do this project in this time?” And he was like, “Well, yeah, maybe we can see how it's going to work.” And we were kind of like, “Okay, well, can you give us some dates, blah, blah, blah,” and that was kind of how it started.
So, like I said, due diligence is absolutely paramount. We asked a few people, we talked to a few people, but at that time, there really wasn't a ton of options out there. So, we were between a rock and hard place and we thought, well, you know …
Marilyn Moedinger (06:32):
How bad could it be?
Greg (06:33):
How bad could it be, yeah, exactly.
[Laughter]
Taylor Davis (06:36):
So, when you say due diligence, and this may be skipping ahead a little bit, what do you wish that you had asked at the outset? Were there questions that you wish that you had … (laughs).
Greg (06:47):
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So, what we did was basically we said, “Hey, we've seen this house that we like, that's got the layout that we like,” and they basically said, “Okay, well, we can kind of draw up some plans and we can modify it.” And I think from an architectural technology standpoint, that's kind of the sort of the standard. So, you're looking at a 30% design review standard, you’re not looking at construction documents.
So, I would've said, “Hey, what do you do for your design? Is it basically just a sketch on AutoCAD and then you just give that to somebody and they go and build it, or do you actually have construction documents with HVAC, electrical locations of all the utilities coming into the house, the home?” Just basically going back to what I know and how I know how to do it.
But I was like well, maybe I've been a bit aggressive in my past and said, “Hey, you guys don't know what you're doing, and I'm not going to build this, I'm not going to do that.” And I really didn't want to cause many issues with my wife, but at the same time, I just wish I would've done what I thought I would've known and asked the hard questions at the start rather than kind of learning it as we were already into it.
Taylor Davis (07:50):
Well, in hindsight, it is 20/20-
Greg (06:51):
It is, it is.
Taylor Davis (07:52):
So, it's an easy … especially during COVID, it felt like the construction industry was kind of turned upside down and we were never quite sure if it was going to get back to normal anyway. So, I think that it's a fair response in hindsight to be able to say, “Well, I wish I had done it this way,” but at the moment, it was a very different universe.
Greg (08:13):
It was, it was. I mean, they were talking about things like we wouldn't even be able to get concrete to pull the foundation at the point in time. And we were like, “Well, I don't see that, but if you’re telling me that, then I don't know, am I wrong?”
Marilyn Moedinger (08:27):
Well, that's the thing, what do you have to push against that? At some point, you have to trust the people who are doing it, that's why it can be so scary, I guess.
Greg (08:36):
And you assume base competency. So, in all of my life, I've assumed base competency, and then it's like, okay, well, once bitten, twice shy kind of thing. But at that time, we were just assuming, the guy built homes; he built homes all the way across central Kentucky, nice enough guy, but I think just ultimately, he got too many steps ahead of himself.
Because he was building and building and building, and all of a sudden, it was just the windows, the shutters came down on the windows and everyone's like, “Okay, what do we do?” So, that's kind of where we were … but I don't know if he knew that going in or if he knew that going in, and then he just kind of tried to make it work and that was really what was the frustration on all parties perhaps.
Sheri Scott (09:17):
So, turning back to the design process, who did you meet with, the builder? Did you meet with a designer, or?
Greg (09:24):
Yeah, it was basically the builder. So, we provided the layout of the home that we wanted to go with. My wife basically said, “Look, I think this will work for us as a family going forward, we'll be able to do this, be able to do that.” And I said, “I agree.”
We had actually looked at a plan online where you can basically go online and download it, and it's custom. I wish we'd done that. I wish we'd just said, “Hey, these are the plans, go and build it,” and we would've had none of these issues. It might have been a scheduling issue, it might have taken longer, but we wouldn't have had any issues.
But essentially, what we did was we got the plans, the layouts, all of that sort of stuff, and then we basically started giving them sort of the mood board process of, “Hey, we want this, we want these colors, we want that tile, we want these lights,” and we basically just kind of walked them through that.
So, I guess it was almost like a first-year architect's college sort of production where you're kind of trying to move things. I mean, we did all the lighting layouts, we did the schedules for all the finishes. Here's me on Bluebeam doing all my little things, trying to make sure that it works. And then we were basically giving that to the flooring, the tiling, the electrical guide — the HVAC guy was a different discussion.
Sheri Scott (10:32):
Wow. So, that was a lot of work and you both have kids and full-time jobs-
Greg (10:37):
Kids, full-time job, yeah. I was right there doing schedules, Gantt charts, doing all this kind of stuff because obviously, I know how to do it.
Sheri Scott (10:44):
Did you know that going in? Did you know that that was going to be your role with the builder?
Greg (10:50):
No, not at all. We were asking questions that we'd learned from our track building experience of building two homes and saying, “Hey, where's this, where's that? Are we going to go and meet the low voltage subcontractor and all these kind of things?” And it was just kind of like, “Oh yeah, we'll get around to that.” And I can't even imagine what it would've been like if we weren't that knowledgeable about the process.
Sheri Scott (11:11):
Because it is a whole different animal going from production builder where you basically go into a room and you have three options, and they're all already coordinated color-wise and things like that, so it's pretty easy to choose jumping to custom home where it's like anything in the world, you just tell me.
Marilyn Moedinger (11:32):
Yeah, no limits, yeah.
Greg (11:34):
Yes. So, we had pricing brackets and things and we had, “Hey, this is my kitchen guy, this is my cabinet guy, this is my flooring guy,” but even got to electrical and HVAC layouts which was completely lunacy, but that was what it turned to, so (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (11:50):
So, the builder didn't do that stuff with you, he just expected that you were going to do it?
Greg (11:58):
Yes. So, you’re basically saying the builder — I think what we're basically saying is that was a person who buys trades and has relationships with trades. And then you kind of tell — we were to the point where we're like this is going to be way too complicated for him to do it. So, we just said, “Hey, we'll do all that. If you just concentrate on finishing, we'll do all this other stuff.”
Marilyn Moedinger (12:23):
And how did that go?
Greg (12:26):
I mean, to be honest with you, it was fine up until kind of like things were really not happening. It was like weeks where nothing would be going on in the house. It was like, “Hey, what's going on?” And the guy was like, “Well, you know … you know how it goes.” They don't want to tell the truth or (are) telling a lie.
And it's like soon as they talk, you're like, “I don't believe you.” So, you lose a lot of trust and then communication becomes fractured. So, then we're trying to deal with our realtor and then his realtor, and there was no consistency.
And I think he's used to building homes but he’s not used to building homes where he's got a client, he's building a spec home or just a home and he’s going to sell it. So, I think this was maybe one of his, maybe he’s thinking, “Oh, well I can try this and see how it goes,” but just didn't have any idea how to actually do it.
Taylor Davis (13:15):
Yeah, that explains a lot. I think that it's so different to build for someone that you don't know at some sort of nebulous future person that may buy this house, and then you just make decisions on your own and there's no real ramifications for it other than resale value, and then dealing with someone who is going to live there and whose children are going to live there and grow up there, and it is their family home, and there's a different level investment associated with it.
If that hasn't happened before with a builder, that's a big leap, I suspect, and probably that explains a little of that disconnect.
Greg (13:54):
Yeah, it was very stressful I think on him as well, and I think ultimately, we were asking for weekly updates essentially to try and make sure we were keeping on top of everything.
Sheri Scott (14:04):
That's not unreasonable.
Marilyn Moedinger (14:05):
I was going to say, that's completely reasonable.
[Laughter]
Greg (14:07):
No, that’s not reasonable, no. But that was the difference between what he'd experienced previously, where he was just like, “Oh, the HVAC will be in six weeks, the concrete might get done in a month,” that kind of thing. Whereas we were like, “Hey, what's happening this week? What's happening this week? What's happening this week?” It was fun.
Marilyn Moedinger (14:23):
So, at what point did the wheels start to come off? So, you mentioned it was going okay, like you were doing a lot of work, but fine, you're getting through it, and then at some point, it just started, so when was that in the construction? Were you into finishes yet? Where did that happen?
Greg (14:37):
No, it was before that. So, essentially, the foundation had been poured and we'd done a few layout things and I was kind of looking at stuff and I was like, “Eh, it doesn't look quite right, but we'll be fine.”
Essentially, they pour the foundation, they started framing, and then the roof went on but it didn't actually go on fully, so it was just basically some parts of it. So, that was around like fall October time. So, the house basically sat empty and framed through the whole winter until the spring. So, nothing got dried in, there was moisture, obviously everything was just dripping through all of the framing.
Marilyn Moedinger (15:20):
I didn't realize it was that long. When you and I chatted before, I did not realize it was that long, wow.
Greg (15:25):
It was basically a whole sort of four or five, six months through the winter time where there was just no real movement. They did start doing some-
Marilyn Moedinger (15:33):
Sounds stressful.
Greg (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, it was. They did start doing some stuff, but it was like putting in some underground stuff or putting in maybe some piping and some stuff so that they could actually start pouring the concrete on the deck and stuff like that.
But one of the things we didn't realize was, was when they’d actually laid the house out, they laid it out that way but really, they should have flipped it because we had the electrical on this side and we had the water on that side.
So, instead of having the electrical in the garage which is typical, we had the water coming in through the basement, and then the electricals getting run all the way down into the basement, so it didn't really make sense. But unfortunately, those are the things that you realize after the fact and we were kind of like, well-
Marilyn Moedinger (16:18):
You're too far into it then, you're not going to flip the foundation at that point.
Taylor Davis (16:22):
Right. And you've got six months of an undried in house that you just have to finish.
Greg (16:27):
Yes. So, you've got those issues, concerned about moisture and I'm like, “Hey, can we leave it open for all this time?” I know this is pressure treated wood, but we know timber's not as good as it used to be and all this kind of stuff. And he's like, “Yeah, yeah, it's fine, it's fine.” I was like, “Okay, whatever. I'm not going to change …”
Marilyn Moedinger (16:41):
What are you going to do?
Taylor Davis (16:42):
There’s nothing to do.
Sheri Scott (16:42):
And Kentucky is a lot of freeze-thaw through the winter, so you're getting wet, it's thawing-
Greg (16:51):
It's expanding, contracting.
Marilyn Moedinger (16:51):
You were basically battling it out to get from framing/half a roof to finish. Because I'm imagining people listening to the story, like, “Well, how did you get this through?” How did you get it moving?
Greg (17:10):
I think really, it was probably a combination of just keeping on top of everything and making sure that we're putting him on notice all the time, to say, “Hey, I know what should be happening and that's not happening.”
So, I'm sending emails, I'm consistently trying to get information. So, it did get dried in. I think obviously, they're waiting for windows probably and they didn't want to put anything in. They put the HVAC on and started bricking.
So, we actually had a whole brick skirt from the basement level all the way up to the top of the first story. So, as a walkout, it's pretty big. So, to brick that whole thing took nearly six months, so that was insane.
We had custom doors in the rear, and then we had some custom doors in the front that we had to basically tell them, “Hey, you need to get the framers back because these openings are what we're putting in.” So, then all these things started to happen on top of everything.
They made them right but obviously, it wasn't like we need to get through fabric inspection; we've already had fabric inspection — well, we bought these doors, you need to put these doors in because we bought them. So, then things like that start to happen. So, it was one step forward, five steps back, and that kind of happened consistently throughout the process.
Taylor Davis (18:21):
You said you had construction experience, I assume that's commercial.
Greg (18:24):
Yeah, it’s commercial, high tech, real estate, data centers, infrastructure, all that kind of stuff.
Taylor Davis (18:30):
So, I can only imagine that your frustration level was … I mean, any-
Marilyn Moedinger (18:35):
Like clown car operation owner.
Taylor Davis (18:37):
Yeah. Like any normal homeowner would've been frustrated. Your frustration level had to have been exponentially worse because you've seen it work well before.
Greg (18:48):
Yes. So, you know how it should work.
Taylor Davis (18:51):
You know it's supposed to happen.
Greg (18:52):
Yeah. And that was just the whole thing of like, “Hey, I can't do anything about it and we're just going to have to keep trying to make sure stuff goes right.”
Taylor Davis (18:59):
Oh, God bless you. I'd have taken advantage of some Kentucky bourbon a lot.
[Laughter]
Greg (19:05):
Well, you probably can’t see behind me, but there's plenty back there, so-
Taylor Davis (19:11):
That would’ve been my coping mechanism, a hundred percent (laughs).
Sheri Scott (19:14):
So, where were you and your family during that time?
Greg (19:16):
So, we were in the rental still, we had a really nice landlord. A guy from California had moved out here and bought some property and was just kind of retiring and just sitting on his rentals, and we were basically living in a three-bedroom house with three boys and a baby on the way.
And then obviously, the baby was born and that was kind of stressful as well. And then now our landlord said, “Hey, do you need six months? Do you need a year? Do you need five years?” And he was like, “I thought you were building a house.” I'm like, “Yeah, believe me, we are building a house.”
[Laughter]
So, then we obviously had the pressures of him saying, “Hey, how long do you need?” And he was like, “Well, I was like six months.” He was like, “Well, do you need six months?” I was like, “Well, yeah, I think so.” He said it's going to be done in the fall or the winter, and then it kept getting pushed and pushed and pushed, then we started talking about, “Well, hey, we need to remove scope from this guy because we'll never get it done.”
We sit here in central Kentucky, might have Larry, Darryll, and Darryll doing the painting, and is that what we really want? No disrespect to Larry, Darryll, and Darryl, but the guy who got to come in and put in the frame out the doors to get inspection for SIVO, we didn't want him doing all of our cabinetry and all of our custom stuff.
Like the stuff you see in the back here, and then we've got stuff in the living room. So, we basically had no paint, no finishes, just get the flooring and the wall tile in, we'll paint everything once we close. So, then we had another period where we still couldn't move in, where we had to basically sort everything else out that he couldn't get done.
Sheri Scott (20:47):
So, you ended your contract with him with just a certificate of occupancy?
Greg (20:51):
Yes, yes.
Sheri Scott (20:53):
Oh, interesting.
Greg (20:54):
Yes. So, we had SIVO, and then they basically got it to a point where we could make it livable. So, they'd obviously installed all the appliances and things like that. But then painting, all of the custom cabinetry, all the trim, so all of the cove molding, things like that, we basically did all that after we closed.
Sheri Scott (21:13):
Did you hire that out or did you do the work?
Greg (21:15):
Yeah, we hired that out. So, we actually went local like we probably should have done in the first place, and actually found some good people and actually did a pretty good job.
Sheri Scott (21:23):
Well, by that time, you'd been in town for two years and you knew people, right?
[Laughter]
Greg (21:27):
Yeah. And things had changed a little bit. There was more stuff out there, there was more people working again. The lockdowns weren't as bad. People were like, “Yeah, COVID, whatever.” And they were kind of going about their business. Whereas obviously, with the state, when we first moved here, we couldn't really do much because you weren't allowed to, so-
Sheri Scott (21:42):
How did your budget go along with this?
Greg (21:44):
So, amazingly, this is one of those things where I think we got really lucky. So, I do estimating as a job. I'm not the best estimator, but I know what things cost.
So, when we were starting to strip scope out and starting to remove stuff, I was like, “Hey, you've got this for this much stuff and you've got that for that much stuff,” and I was like, “That's fair but this is way expensive, this doesn't make any sense.”
Or you've got like 150 bucks for this, I was like, “There's no way it costs 150 bucks.” And then he was like, “No, hey, here's the things that I install.” I was like, “Oh, it does cost 150 bucks.” Because he was building just spec and you're just building for the market.
So, it actually didn't go too bad. I mean, we ended up paying roughly around what I thought we would've paid in the end, but then obviously, we had to spend another six figures to finish it, which would've been included in the mortgage, but then we had that money saved from when we sold the house in Tennessee.
So, it was kind of like we kind of lucked out a little bit. So, I don't think the guy’s a dishonest guy, I think he just got in and over his head. We were just trying to make him go and go and go, and that's kind of where he was stuck with us.
Sheri Scott (22:53):
And they were difficult times. Sounds like he didn't handle it well, but there's a lot of people that didn't know how to handle that COVID situation.
Greg (23:02):
Yeah, it was tough. But thankfully, like I said, I think we got lucky, but also, these were lessons learned that I would take into the next/if we do a next build.
Taylor Davis (23:10):
I think I'd just wait a hot second before you embark on that again.
[Laughter]
Greg (23:13):
Wait 30 years, buy something that's already finished.
Taylor Davis (23:17):
If I were you, I'd just hold off just a little bit and have a little more bourbon before you head down that path.
Greg (23:22):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're not going anywhere.
Marilyn Moedinger (23:25):
Well, I guess that's a perfect segue to our big question. I mean, this is why we're doing this podcast, is to have folks like yourself share those lessons, and I feel like you've been doing a good job of that along the way, even our conversation today.
But if you could sum up some of those lessons, what would they be, for yourself sometime in the future, should you choose to do it or for others who are listening and now terrified?
[Laughter]
Greg (23:49):
I don't think people should be terrified. I think ultimately, I'll say it the same three things are due diligence, due diligence, due diligence. So, if every single step of the way you do your due diligence and you have a plan that you are following, it's very easy to start off something not having a plan and then you're like, “Well, what do we do now?”
It's like, “Okay, well, I've done my due diligence here to get to the next step, so now we can move on to the next one.” And I think it's just all about understanding the market, understanding where you're building, who your builder is, what the trades are available, who's got a reputation that's good, bad or indifferent. If you've not heard of them, that's probably not a bad thing. But if you have heard of them, don't assume that they're good. I think you just have to weigh off everything.
And I would say ultimately, for a custom home, I think you probably have to maybe take your idea of what a track builder builds and probably double it. Maybe not as much double, but you need to add in room and float in that schedule because things are going to come up and you might not be able to easily get them back on track without having some float in that schedule.
Marilyn Moedinger (24:54):
That's a good point.
Greg (24:55):
But don't be afraid. I'd say don't be afraid to do it.
Taylor Davis (24:58):
I think that the due diligence advice, and you've said it now several times, and I think it's really important. One of the things that we try and help our clients do all the time is provide them information so that they can make decisions.
And so, whether that information's coming from a design professional or coming from a realtor or coming from the bank or coming from whomever, gathering the information and being able to make decisions based on real information and not on Instagram or-
Greg (25:29):
Rethink.
Taylor Davis (25:30):
Vibes, yeah, you don't want it on vibes. And so, I think that doing one's due diligence can encompass so many things. Like it really is about owning that it's your responsibility for your — I mean, you're building your own house, and it is in part your responsibility to kind of do that research and figure out who's the right fit, and figure out the kinds of things that you need, and that's really critical.
Greg (25:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
Marilyn Moedinger (25:54):
I think even diving into what due diligence actually means, it's a big question. How do you determine if someone that you're meeting to hire to do work is someone you can trust? What does that actually mean? Taylor's sort of going into that, but what would you say Greg, in terms of what might that look like?
Greg (26:17):
I mean, I think if you're looking at a general contractor or a builder who's going to ultimately own that, I think, you say, “Hey, can you take me around some of your existing properties?” “Okay, fine.” “How far away are they? Are they local? Are they regional?”
And then say, “Hey, can I have some testimonials? Can you please put me in touch with some people who’ve worked with you before?” I find myself feeling like I'm in the twilight zone here and I know all this stuff and I didn't do it.
Sheri Scott (26:42):
It's different when it's on your plate. It is so different.
Greg (26:45):
It is, it is, and that's what you girls could have done and helped us out, I think.
Marilyn Moedinger (26:50):
Call Sheri for the next one (laughs).
Taylor Davis (26:51):
Yeah, call Sheri. She’s right around the corner.
Greg (26:52):
But same with trades, I mean, you have to find out, are they reputable? Are they local? How much work do you have on right now? Are you quiet? Are you busy? Because we know our industry is great at taking on work, but we know we're not very good at finishing it on time and doing things according to the contract drawings and all that kind of stuff just because things happen.
So, that's kind of what I would do, and then I would also find out locations. So, I think we had guys coming in from over an hour away. So, if you have to come drive for an hour to do a little touch up or a little framing change or whatever it may be, it's like they're not going to be top of your list, they're going to be so far down here, and they're like, “Oh, it's four o'clock, I can't get to you now,” and another day got wasted.
So, yeah, I would say look at all that kind of stuff, and then I think also just look at the history of the people that you're working with and how long they've been in business, and is it the same guy, girl who've been there 40 years and they're still doing it because they love it, and that's the kind of stuff that you need to really look at, I think.
Marilyn Moedinger (27:55):
Well, and also a good GC will have those relationships with all the subs, so you don't have to vet every single sub because if you've got a GC who's got their act together, they have their stable of subs that are reliable guys that they work with all the time.
And then that also helps and removes a lot of that pressure or workload from the owner. The owner shouldn't have to do all those things you're talking about if the GC is on his game.
Greg (28:22):
Yeah, I think so.
Sheri Scott (28:26):
Greg, you mentioned a couple of times about finishing, and that's a really good point about the subs. Like everybody wants to finish the project and get out of there, but you need somebody really strong to finish a project, that is the hardest step.
And it's when the homeowners are so anxious and everybody wants to be done and everybody's out of money, and that's a good question to ask. If you do get references and walk through a house, ask them how did the project finish?
Greg (28:56):
Right. Yeah. Absolutely.
Taylor Davis (28:58):
So, speaking of finishing, we've talked a whole lot about your experience, which was shaky. I don't know the right word to say it best, butwhat I would to hear … less than optimal, there's lots of words we could use to describe it, but I'm trying to be optimistic.
But now that you're on the back end and we know that it wasn't perfect, but what is something about your finished home that you do love every time you see it and you walk in the door? What are the things that you adore about this house given the blood, sweat, tears you put into it?
[Laughter]
Greg (29:29):
I mean, I think, like I said, when we actually chose what we were going to do, we got a great lot, kind of slopes away nicely, got a little gone, but there looks out onto a retention area, but it's actually very, very nice.
It's all trees. If you kind of look out there and you don't look too hard, you can't see the homes here, you can't see the homes here, so it's a little slice of relaxation in a stressful world and that's really what we wanted when we picked the location. So, I think that's number one.
So, the number two is just kind of seeing how my wife's style and her imprint of the home on how it looks. We've got wallpaper, we've got tile, we've got hardwood, we've got laminate, vinyl point floor, and we've got colored cabinets. You can see my room behind, it's not exactly a white room, it's very, very dark blue.
Marilyn Moedinger (30:19):
I love it.
Greg (30:20):
So, we've kind of done all this stuff before. So, kind of seeing how that all went together, just really knowing that it was everything that I've learned in my 20 years of doing this, and then obviously, with my wife as well, having her art background and her design background, being able to put that into it.
And then just having the space for the boys to be able to run around and really enjoy that we designed it or we picked something and put it together, and then knowing that someone goes back and says, “Oh, where did you buy this house from?” And say, “Oh, well, we built it kind of thing.”
And like you said, it's challenging, you learn lessons in life, and I think just having that family and the input and even though my wife is like, “You guys are crazy all the time,” so like my boys, and me and it's like, well, at least we've got a nice house to … like we got a nice house out of it.
[Laughter]
So, yeah, we're still deep in the trenches with the boys because they're all still pretty young, but just having the space for them is probably the third thing, so, yeah.
Taylor Davis (31:17):
Well, thank you for wrapping what could have potentially been a sort of cloudy experience up with a bow and keeping it positive. I think that's the important thing I think that we're trying to communicate to our listeners, is a lot of times, there are some real difficulties associated with building a house.
But ultimately, you end up with a project that's got lots of things that you love about it, that allows you to live the way you want to live and the view that you have, and the space for your kids, and all those things are really important. And it may be worth the temporary headache and heartache, but at the end you get to a point where you really are appreciative and value it.
Greg (31:59):
Absolutely. It's worth the stress. If you can manage the stress, it's worth it, for sure.
Taylor Davis (32:03):
You said it a lot more succinctly than I did, so thank you.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (32:07):
Well, on that note thank you so much Greg for joining us and for sharing everything, it's really, really valuable for everyone to hear your story, so thanks for joining.
Greg (32:19):
Thank you all for having me on, appreciate it.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:22):
Well, that was a story.
Sheri Scott (32:25):
Quite the story (laughs). quite the experience.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:28):
I like how literally all these things were going on and then … but laced throughout this whole thing is there's three little boys with one on the way, you just have to keep remembering there's this on top of it (laughs).
Sheri Scott (32:41):
The chaos, the total chaos.
Taylor Davis (32:43):
Well, while it certainly hasn't been the norm for most of the folks that we've had on this podcast, for that to be their story. I suspect that happens way more frequently than we are privy to just because our side of generally the way we are operating in the world, doesn't give us eyes into kind of that design build realm that he was working with.
And so, it's really helpful, I think for our listeners to be able to hear a different path and kind of how that went. And it doesn't have to be that way, that different path does not spell doom and disaster, I don't want to intimate that.
Marilyn Moedinger (33:19):
No. Plenty of people do projects that way and have it work just fine. And I think the key is, as Greg kept saying, due diligence. How do you guarantee that the person you're working with — because the design build process, working with a builder can be great.
It doesn't have to be like that, but it's got to be the right guy, and it sounded like this general contractor was a little bit out over his skis, or was more a production guy who wasn't used to custom. And there is a really big difference between custom and production in terms of the mindset of the builders and the subs, and it's a totally different world.
Sheri Scott (33:55):
Just different systems too.
Marilyn Moedinger (33:56):
Different systems, yep.
Sheri Scott (33:59):
In my practice, we do work with design builders. Of course, we are the designers that — they call themselves the designers, but they essentially … the builder brings the client to us and we do the work directly with the client. So, even with him, that was why I asked the question, “Did you meet with the designer? Who drew the drawings?” I'm not sure he even knew.
Marilyn Moedinger (34:26):
He told me in our interview earlier, and he didn't say this at this time, but that there was a draftsman, but he wasn't very good.
But that's an interesting point though, Sheri, because I was imagining that it's one thing if you're doing design build with a builder and the builder says, “Here's my in-house designer, or here's my architect that I work with on the side” like you do. It's quite another if it's the literal same guy meeting you while he's trying to run a job, while he's also talking to you about tile.
Sheri Scott (34:57):
And that happens a lot.
Marilyn Moedinger (34:59):
Oh, my gosh, you can't do that. I mean, it's just too crazy.
Sheri Scott (35:04):
And that is what usually happens, is they just send you to the store, and then you're talking to the store person that's happy to help but they know nothing about your budget or your style or the house.
Marilyn Moedinger (35:19):
Or how everything comes together. Like it's one thing to pick out all your plumbing fixtures with a very knowledgeable rep at a plumbing place, that's fine. But that person has no idea about your tile selections, and the tile person has no idea about your flooring selections, and that person has no idea … like you need somebody somewhere who's thinking holistically about this stuff (chuckles).
Taylor Davis (35:39):
Well, and I think that sort of goes back to what we talked about before, that the team is important. And that team can be all in one entity, or it can be several entities that are working together and coordinating through the process.
Well, it seems to me there may be people who do it really well. It is entirely unfathomable to me that one person could be responsible for all of that and not miss things, places – even just a house, which we say just a house, but a house is a really complicated-
Marilyn Moedinger (36:11):
4,200 square feet.
Taylor Davis (36:13):
Yeah. I mean, 4,200 square feet is a lot. Having a team where the allocation of responsibility and the coordination between those responsibilities is really critical. And when it's all on one person's shoulders, it may feel efficient, but there's just so much that you lose any efficiency in that world. It's not efficient.
Marilyn Moedinger (36:36):
Well, think about it this way, and I learned this from my days being a project manager and estimator on the contracting side. As a project manager, I was thinking 6 to 8 to 12 weeks out on my projects. My super, who was in the field was thinking from this minute to, like, week two.
Now, of course, he's thinking longer term and I'm thinking shorter term, but he's thinking about the immediacy of stuff so that I could be freed up to make sure that the windows were ordered so they would arrive when we need them in eight weeks.
I was thinking further out and getting things lined up. None of us were designing because the project had already been designed by an architect, so we weren't … I can't imagine putting that on top of the work that I had to do while running the subs and getting quotes and getting everybody organized. And we were doing custom builds in those days, and that's why I think about it the way I do today because I'm like, wow, I think it's a reminder.
And of course, we're biased, whatever. We always say we're biased; we're architects, we think that architects bring value to projects, we know they do. But I think it's also a reminder, and Greg's story is a reminder that architects do more than pick out the finishes. Architects do more than just lay out the plans.
If an architect is present, if there's a good contract, if there's established relationships with good contractors … with my clients, they're asking me what contractor should I work with? And what I say is, “Here are the six I've worked with, you can see these are the projects they've done for me and they've performed well, or this has happened.”
So, they don't even have to worry about all that. I mean, they still do their due diligence of course, but the point is that they're not having to do it all alone, we do way more than just pick out things.
Sheri Scott (38:22):
And a custom home, those hours of work have to be done, there are no shortcuts. You can't get enough systems in place to make it quicker or shorter or less work, the work just has to be done. And if they don't have the people to do it, then you're going to end up doing it as the homeowner like they did with four kids and in an apartment.
Taylor Davis (38:45):
And that does not save money. If there is nobody on the team that is making those decisions, that is pulling together all of those pieces, that's not a money-saving tactic if you are a homeowner. That is something that you are officially taking on yourself or leaving to chance, and neither one of those things are free.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:08):
And something Greg said, like he said it kind of quickly, so I'm going to underline, is that in terms of the budget, when you asked him about the budget Sheri, and he said that it ended up okay, they got out for the same amount they were going to pay him, except for the finishes which were an additional six figures.
Taylor Davis (39:25):
And another year, another year of a rental.
Sheri Scott (39:29):
Oh, my gosh, I thought the same thing.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:31):
Sure, it sounded like they just kind of decided to get to a certain point and kind of-
Sheri Scott (39:36):
Get out of the contract, yeah.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:39):
Say goodbye and everybody go their separate ways, but could that have been prevented? And I think the three of us would jump up and down and say, “Yes (laughs).” And we just hate to see people go through that whether it's … it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that they did or didn't work with an architect, we just don't want anyone to go through that.
Sheri Scott (39:59):
Well, I thought it was interesting in the very beginning, he said that he regrets it now, but he didn't want to cause issues in the beginning. He didn't want to ask too many questions, he didn't want to be too aggressive, he wanted to like him, and he wanted a good relationship but it's still a professional relationship, and you have to speak up early.
Marilyn Moedinger (40:24):
I mean, I just told the story to the other day to a client. I had a project one time where we picked out the kitchen, custom kitchen, everything custom built with my normal cabinet guys, everything's amazing.
It's getting installed and we're standing there, homeowner, me, cabinet guys, everybody – everybody's like, “Look at your beautiful kitchen,” and the look on her face, the owner's face, she's just like … I was like, “Oh, my God, she hates it.”
I was like, “Are you going to tell … what do you think?” And she's like, “It's fine, it's fine.” And it took me a while and I pulled it out. I was like, “We are not leaving this house until you tell me your real opinion because I can already tell your real opinion, and you need to tell me if you don't like it.” And she didn't like it.
And it's okay. She understood she had approved the things, we followed all the procedures. Everybody knew exactly what was going on, but it is not too late, even when they're installing the kitchen.
We found a fairly easy way to fix the situation. You look at the kitchen, you would never know the change, and it costs them a little bit of extra money. Think maybe like maybe five or $6,000, so not nothing.
But what's that compared to a kitchen that you hate in a house you're going to live in for the rest of your life? I was like, “Please speak up.” So, I tell my clients all the time, “Don't spare my feelings. Don't think you have to say, well, Marilyn designed this thing, and I don't want her to feel bad.” No, it's your house, tell me (laughs).”
Taylor Davis (41:43):
And good construction teams, whether it's the architects or contractors, welcome the questions. They want the questions. If you get the sense, even at the very outset, and I think that's one of the due diligence pieces – if you sense that anybody that you are interviewing for your project doesn't want to answer questions or has a hesitancy to answer them, that is a giant red flag.
The more open and available and willing to answer questions and share information and be transparent, that's a pretty good predictor of how the rest of your project is going to go. Because if you are out there asking questions and the framers are there and you're like, “Hey, what's this over here?” And they're willing to answer it, that's a pretty good thing.
I think that gets overlooked and I'm so glad you brought that up Sheri because that transparency and willing to answer questions, that's a really good way to do due diligence, even if you're kind of making up the questions. It doesn't have to be real questions. At the interview process, make some stuff up and see what they think.
Marilyn Moedinger (42:49):
It's literally sometimes not what they say, but how they're answering you.
Taylor Davis (42:53):
Yeah. How they respond.
Marilyn Moedinger (42:54):
Yep. So, on that note …
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (42:57):
That was so many lessons in there.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:01):
It’s a lot of lessons (laughs).
Taylor Davis (43:02):
Thanks so much for joining us on Home: The Second Story. If you would like to come on the show and share your story, email us at admin@htsspodcast.com, we would love to have you as a guest. For more inspiring homeowner stories and tips, we will see you next time.
[Music Playing]
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