In this episode, we sit down with Carol Walsh, a homeowner and realtor from rural Monterey County, California, who recently completed a full kitchen renovation — largely on her own terms. The kitchen transformation wasn't just about aesthetics. It was also a capstone project for her coursework in historic preservation, making the renovation both personal and educational. What started as a theoretical school assignment quickly turned into a real-life remodel when Carol and her husband decided to invest in enjoying their kitchen before potentially selling the home.
We walk through the scope of the project, from its outdated 1975 yellow-tile beginnings to the modern, budget-conscious result completed for under $30,000. Carol emphasizes how she and her husband divided tasks strategically — hiring out drywall, electrical work, and flooring while doing everything else themselves, including cabinetry assembly, demolition, and tile work. The result is a high-end-looking kitchen built with meticulous planning and sweat equity. But Carol is clear: this approach required deep focus, time flexibility, and experience. She stresses the importance of understanding both your capabilities and your limits.
The renovation’s success came down to smart decision-making. Carol pre-purchased every material before demo day, anticipating supply chain issues and price hikes. She leaned heavily on online resources and architectural Twitter threads (including some from Marilyn), using them to fill in knowledge gaps — especially around lighting design. Our realtor-guest's biggest takeaway: design choices should reflect both functionality and future resale value. She chose neutral backsplashes, timeless cabinet styles, and high-quality secondhand appliances, all while resisting the urge to impose overly personalized finishes.
Living through the renovation presented challenges, especially with pets and a teenager at home. But Carol’s message is clear: do it sooner so you can enjoy it. Her kitchen has now become a space of inspiration — from her morning coffee ritual to newfound baking adventures, it’s a space that brings her daily joy. She also reflects on managing the renovation as a couple. Despite a few tense moments, she and her husband succeeded because of clear roles, mutual respect, and years of working on smaller projects together.
We wrap with Carol’s advice to DIYers: be brutally honest about what you can take on. A beautiful result isn’t just about elbow grease — it requires vision, discipline, and knowing when to bring in help. For anyone considering a home renovation, her story is a blueprint for how to lead a project with both creativity and pragmatism.
00:00 – Intro & Welcome
00:26 – Meet Carol & Her Project Overview
02:02 – Designing a Kitchen for School & Real Life
04:09 – DIY vs. Hiring Out: Making Smart Choices
08:22 – Budgeting & Repurposing High-End Looks
13:09 – Countertop Crisis & Sink Installation Lessons
16:45 – Appliance Challenges & Unexpected Fixes
18:28 – Timing the Project for Life & Budget
22:08 – Stockpiling Materials to Beat Inflation
24:14 – Couple Collaboration & Role Clarity
33:24 – DIY Lessons: When to Call in Help
36:54 – Design Decisions with Resale in Mind
41:37 – What Brings Daily Joy in the Kitchen
43:40 – Final Thoughts on Timing & Enjoyment
45:02 – Wrap-Up & Closing Comments
Second Story Carol
Speakers: Marilyn Moedinger, Sheri Scott, & Carol Walsh
[Music playing]
Voiceover (00:02):
Everyone says how horrible it'll be to renovate or build your house. We're here to say, it doesn't have to be that way.
Join three seasoned architects as they interview homeowners who recently completed a large project, and ask them one simple question: what do you know now that you wish you knew before you started?
Welcome to Home: The Second Story Podcast.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:26):
Hi everyone, and welcome to Home: The Second Story. We are three (well, two today) residential architects sharing real conversations with homeowners who've taken on custom home and renovation projects.
If you haven't already, check out our first episode to hear more about us and why we're doing this. I’m Marilyn Moedinger of Runcible Studios, located in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and Boston, Massachusetts. Joined by my one co-host today.
Sheri Scott (00:51):
That's right. I am Sheri Scott from Cincinnati, Ohio, and Springhouse Architects. And we are joined by our guest, Carol Walsh in Salinas, California. Hi, Carol.
Carol Walsh (01:02):
Hi, guys. Thanks for having me.
Sheri Scott (01:04):
Yeah, thanks for joining us. We're going to start, jump right into your project with a quick five questions just to get our feet under us and understand what we're talking about. Where is your project located?
Carol Walsh (01:21):
So, I'm in Monterey County, specifically North Monterey County in the Monterey Bay. I live in, I call it, Steinbeck Country. So, I'm out here in the rural hinterlands. And I've been here for about 13 — it'll be 13 years in November 22nd that we bought this house.
So, when we purchased this house, there was so much work that needed to be done, and getting to the kitchen finally was really exciting.
Sheri Scott (01:54):
So, the project was a full kitchen renovation, or did you do anything additional? What was the project?
Carol Walsh (02:02):
Well, we've been talking about remodeling this kitchen forever. It was a 1975 yellow-tile monstrosity. My husband and I were like, “We may sell this house in the future when (he) retires in a few years and the kids are both out of the house, but let's have a nice kitchen in the meantime.”
And we sort of dovetailed that with me going back to school. So, part of my preservation schooling that I'm doing involves things like drafting and doing materials and scheduling and all of that. So, I actually designed the kitchen as part of my capstone project.
Sheri Scott (02:43):
Oh, interesting. That's architectural preservation?
Carol Walsh (02:47):
Yeah, historic preservation program out of Astoria, Oregon. It's called Clatsop Community College. Shout out to my amazing people there, but it was sort of a theoretical exercise, and my husband got more and more excited by the concept of actually doing it. And so, that led to the next semester, where I said, “Hey, why don't we actually do this?” And that was kind of the catalyst to the whole thing.
Sheri Scott (03:22):
When did you start your project, and when did it end? How long did it take?
Carol Walsh (03:29):
I wouldn't consider it officially ended.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (03:32):
Oh, okay.
Marilyn Moedinger (03:33):
We know what that's like.
Carol Walsh (03:35):
Let's be real, let's be real. There's some trim up there that I still have to go back and finish. There's the fridge inset, which I want to do a little work on to make it look a little more built-in. But officially, I came back from New York City, and see, Marilyn, May 9th, I think we started demo just a couple days later. And we had our first real celebration dinner when it was finished three months later.
Sheri Scott (04:07):
Did you do the work yourself?
Carol Walsh (04:09):
We did a lot of the work. We hired out some things. So, part of my decision-making in this, in addition to doing this on as much of a budget as we could figure out how to do it on, was recognition that we could do certain things like flooring. We've done that before. But it takes us so much longer. It just takes so much longer.
Marilyn Moedinger (04:33):
Yeah, that's the tradeoff.
Carol Walsh (04:35):
And doing things like drywall, I could do it, but I'd probably want to kill somebody by the end of it. And so, we hired out drywall, we hired out installing the floor. We hired out installing the quartz countertops, and we hired an electrician that did a full rewire and a sub-panel for us. And we did everything else.
So, we did all the demo, we did all the building of the IKEA cabinets, we did (laughs) all of the trim work. So, we did a lot.
Sheri Scott (05:17):
That's a lot.
Carol Walsh (05:20):
The first month was just 7:00 in the morning until 10:00 at night. And my husband took time off of work. So, we really had to just go hard and learned a lot of lessons along the way, as we always do in these situations. But I was, frankly, really happy that we managed to get what we did accomplished in three months, given that it was not just hiring somebody else out to do the work.
Sheri Scott (05:57):
And I know this was a Capstone project for you in school. Did you have any other designers or any other professionals involved throughout the process?
Carol Walsh (06:12):
Just me hitting bookmark on Marilyn's design stuff constantly.
Sheri Scott (06:17):
Nice, okay.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (06:19):
Aww, Carol.
Sheri Scott (06:20):
She led you through it and she didn't even know.
Carol Walsh (06:22):
Seriously. No, I mean, I want to be really real about this because Marilyn did an amazing thread about lighting, and I had to think about lighting. And that was probably one of my weakest skills. And I must have read that thread like four times.
Marilyn Moedinger (06:43):
(Laughs)
Carol Walsh (06:44):
And really thinking about it. And so, you can kind of see in the background, I've got my overhead lights off right now, but I've got a nice light over the sink, and I've got my lovely under-counter lighting, which is the best money we spent, bar none.
Sheri Scott (07:04):
It looks nice even just from this perspective, seeing behind you, because there are different levels of light. It's not just all-
Marilyn Moedinger (07:13):
Not like hospital grade (laughs).
Sheri Scott (07:16):
Yeah, it's good. Good job. Good job, Marilyn.
Marilyn Moedinger (07:21):
The power of Twitter.
Carol Walsh (07:23):
Yeah, Marilyn was over there providing me with knowledge that she didn't even know she was giving me. But the reality is that as a realtor, I spent a lot of years looking at kitchens, and a lot of years looking at bad kitchens. And thinking about the reality of our project, which was we didn't have a budget that allowed us to change the layout, to add square footage, to do anything crazy.
So, we really had to stick with our existing layout, and then figure out ways to make it feel more upscale and more interesting than our budget allowed. And so, my design process was a lot of looking at higher-end things and trying to think about how I could translate that backwards to something we could actually realistically either afford or accomplish.
Marilyn Moedinger (08:22):
So, lots of field research, I mean, basically, it’s like the fancy way to say that. So, you had been (and perhaps even well before you started this project) looking at these kitchens and over the years, kind of taking notes, like, “I like that feature, that's really cool. I would never do that. This is dumb.”
And even in those high-end kitchens, I'm sure you experience this, where sometimes you walk into a high-end kitchen and it hasn't been designed right, and just because it's expensive, there's weird layout things, and you're like, “Okay, well, this is an awkward space to use, or this would be frustrating to actually function in.” So, that's cool that you were taking notes over the years for all that stuff.
Carol Walsh (09:03):
Yeah, it’s really interesting too, because this isn’t our forever house. And so, part of what we were really thinking about was, “We're probably going to sell this house in the near future. And so, this has to be a kitchen that we both love and enjoy and are proud of, but is also something that another buyer would walk into and not feel either an objection or go, ‘Hmm. Yeah, it's a no for me.’”
And we wanted it to be timeless enough that it could hang out for five years and still feel current, still feel classic. This is a 1975 branch; it's got zero character. So, we had to think about how to put character in and make it feel like something that was a little bit more intentional.
And so, that was part of it. And then thinking about the reality of our budget (chuckles). So, we accomplished this for less than $30,000.
Sheri Scott (10:11):
That's amazing for a full kitchen.
Marilyn Moedinger (10:14):
And that's without paying yourselves. I just want to put a big asterisk. You probably cut that budget in half by doing the work yourself.
Carol Walsh (10:23):
That's right, because I was doing all of the design, all of the schedule management, all of the management of subs, going to pick out all the materials, searching for the sales. The husband is finding the deal on the Sub-Zero that's 10 years old that still works great that we got for $1,000.
So, we were really thinking about ways that we could get higher-end things without spending the higher-end dollar. But that is so much time, and people have to realize that you cannot just go boop, boop, boop, boop. Even in ChatGPT, even in all the wonderful technological things that we have, it doesn't replace your feet going down there, and touching the tile.
Marilyn Moedinger (11:19):
Or combing Facebook Marketplace, and then dealing with someone who's trying to sell their fridge. And you got to get it out of there, and you got to haul it, and you got to find the truck and the guy and the thing and get it in the door. And it seems easy on paper, but it's not. No. So, that's a hard-earned-
[Laughter]
That’s hard-earned right there.
Sheri Scott (11:40):
And you were living there. You lived in your home through it.
Carol Walsh (11:45):
Yes, yes. And we had four very unhappy doggies because they're like-“What?”
[Laughter]
This is their transit from our master bedroom out to the backyard. This is where they eat. This is their world, and I only have one kid left in the house who's a teenager now. So, we could have never accomplished this (I wouldn't even want to think about it) with little kids. That would've been insane. It was really only because I had a teenager that I could throw a mac and cheese at (laughs)-
[Laughter]
… as I ran in to pull more staples out of the floor before we were ready for the floor. So, it requires a level of flexibility and frankly, not having to pay so much attention to some of these other things in order to focus on this.
And I kind of had a break between listings and clients that magically happened that allowed me to really focus on this. And I just think if people want to do projects like this, they have to think about not just the time, but their focus.
Marilyn Moedinger (12:59):
Yeah, your focus.
Carol Walsh (13:00):
There are so many little details that if you miss it – man, we almost had a disaster with the counters, for example. Because of-
Marilyn Moedinger (13:09):
Let’s hear it. Let's hear it (chuckles).
Carol Walsh (13:10):
Oh girl, I feel like I need-
[Laughter]
I need a drink just to talk about it.
Marilyn Moedinger (13:16):
Well, go pour yourself something out of that new kitchen (laughs).
Carol Walsh (13:19):
And that's the thing. The reality was I thought, “Okay, I know a lot of stuff, but I know that there's stuff that I don't know, and it's going to come and get me at any moment.” And so, there was a mindset I already had, which was, “Okay, what happens next?”
And so, when I went to have (chuckles) my guy do the countertops while another guy came in and did the actual installation of the plywood as a base for the counters to come in. He measured all that out, and everything was looking really good, except that it didn't go over the sink.
The sink interaction between the counter and the sink level was not high enough. So, that meant I had to drop the sink. I had to figure out how to drop the sink. And this sink is so big and heavy. I don’t know if you guys can see it.
Marilyn Moedinger (14:21):
Is it like a farmhouse sink?
Carol Walsh (14:23):
Yeah, you can kind of see-
Marilyn Moedinger (14:24):
Yeah, it is. Like an apron sink. Yeah, there it is.
Sheri Scott (14:29):
Those are so hard to get the details right. Always hard.
Carol Walsh (14:31):
I was like, “Oh, Lord …” And so, what I ended up doing was figuring out a way to create an entire support system under that sink that I could drop another … it was a half an inch difference. And I had my husband, I had his best friend at work, who was their in-house carpenter guy, we were all trying to figure it out.
And I was like, “I think this is the way. This is my plan. I'm going to cut out this, and then I'm going to create a support with this.” And (chuckles) Greg, his friend, just looks at me and goes, “Do that, do that. That will work.”
Marilyn Moedinger (15:12):
(Laughs).
Carol Walsh (15:13):
And I was like, “Okay.” My husband was like, “I don't know.” I was like, “Oh, Greg said it'll work. So that's what we're doing now.” And that's what we did. And it worked. But in that moment, it was really, really like make-or-break kind of stuff.
Marilyn Moedinger (15:31):
Well, and that's the kind of thing that if you don't have a general contractor or an architect (like you did not), then everyone's going to be looking at you to solve it. And luckily, you were equipped to do that. That's where it gets back to what you're saying about focus.
If you weren't able to focus on that, or you had little kids running around, or all these other factors, it might not have been possible for you to come up with that solution, and then you'd have a wonky sink. So, that's the kind of thing that you can't plan for but is going to happen on these projects (laughs).
Carol Walsh (16:09):
Yeah, and then we had another thing where the stove that we have is a zero-clearance, it's an electric stove. We're all electric here, we're out in the country. And so, when the guy did the countertops on that side, the clearance that we had to get that stove in and out was … my husband was sweating as he was trying to install this thing. And luckily, one of the best-
Marilyn Moedinger (16:45):
That's when you get butter, and you just grease the sides. Slip it right in.
[Laughter]
Carol Walsh (16:50):
And then of course, I'm concerned because we've got the LVP flooring. And so, I don't want to scratch that. We're trying to make sure everything is lining up correctly. And I found these wonderful skid pads that we could put it on, and we could roll it out and figure it out and roll it back and figure it out, and keep just working it until we had it exactly where we needed it to be.
And again, I'm on there, asking questions to whatever Google machine, saying, “What's your favorite way to slide an oven?”
[Laughter]
Because I don't know. Nobody's telling me this, and I don't have the financial ability to handle somebody to do all this from up above and say, “Carol, just do the thing.” So, it was a process of just being really not stuck on your solution. Being willing to look and see, “Are there five other solutions that might work better?”
Marilyn Moedinger (18:00):
And being flexible enough to go with that or to figure it out is a big part of that. So, you mentioned that you lived in the house for a while before you started on this project. So, what was the thing that finally made you say, “It's time for the kitchen?” You went into that a little bit, but is it age of kids, you're thinking about moving out? What was that spark that was like, “Now it's time?”
Carol Walsh (18:28):
I think it's probably all of those things. I mean, part of it is that we had done a lot of work on our property. So, we bought about an acre and a quarter. And when we started in this house, it was really about working from the outside in.
So, fencing and gates and horse barns, and all the things, and then sheds, and kind of working our way to the house. And then during COVID, we did the siding, we did windows, we did flooring in the rest of the house. We did trim in the rest of the house. So, we're down to just the kitchen and bathrooms.
Marilyn Moedinger (19:08):
The last piece (laughs).
Carol Walsh (19:11):
And also, when we had our previous home, we remodeled the bathroom (and I use that term very lightly) when we sold the place, right before we sold the place, we rented it for a little while. And we had little, little kids at the time, and it was insane. But when we were done, I was like, “Why didn't we do this before, so we could enjoy it?” This is terrible.
Marilyn Moedinger (19:37):
Yeah, do it sooner.
Carol Walsh (19:39):
This is awful. I wish I had had this when … and so, that was a lesson that came to mind. It's like we worked really hard on this property, and now, it's time for actually us to have a room that we really, really enjoy. And I love cooking, but that kitchen sucked.
[Laughter]
It was just like everything in there was terrible. The fridge was on its last legs and was leaking. It didn't fit in the hole where the fridge is supposed to go.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:11):
And then if you're going to buy a new fridge, you don't want to buy a new fridge because then you're like, “Well, now, it's going to fit in the old dumb kitchen.”
Carol Walsh (20:20):
Exactly. We had an oven; it was an oven that was just a sad state of affairs. And the dishwasher that was like, “Hmm, maybe I'll dry. I don't know.” So, we just decided, “Let's go ahead and do this.” And then there was another little part of it, which was we knew tariffs were coming.
And I told my husband, I said, “Listen, if we're going to do this, I'm going to buy all the materials, all the appliances, all the things, everything as soon as I can, and we're going to stockpile it all in our- we call it the barn, or the guest house.
And that was a godsend, because if we hadn't had that extra space to store all the cabinetry and every other thing that I bought ahead of time, it would've been really difficult to do that. But by doing that (I don't know), I saved 30% or more, depending on what piece of material you're talking about.
The only thing I got caught out on, there were two things that hosed me with the tariffs and the sort of shipping wars and all of that, which was the rest of my LVP flooring. I had about half a floor for a month, which was fun.
And then because Home Depot magically just went, “We don't have it.” And I had to keep tracking up the chain to find out it's sitting on a boat; it's going to come. But we don't know when. And so, that kind of stuff where I can't imagine how bad this would've been if I hadn't done that.
Sheri Scott (22:08):
So, Carol, did you have everything for the entire project before you started? All of the materials, before you ripped out what you had? (Carol nods.) Interesting. That's good.
Carol Walsh (22:18):
Yeah.
Sheri Scott (22:19):
That’s really good.
Carol Walsh (22:19):
Because it was time, too, for us.
Marilyn Moedinger (22:22):
Yeah. You knew once you rip out the kitchen, you don't want to be having it ripped out for weeks on end while you're waiting for something to come in.
Sheri Scott (22:30):
Or scrambling to find the right fridge, and yeah, all of that. That's really good planning.
Marilyn Moedinger (22:35):
I also really appreciate what you said about a lesson that you learned from a previous project. The bathroom story, where you were like, “This is great. I wish we'd have done it sooner.” And I think I have never worked with a client in 20 years who says, “Wow, I really wish I would've waited to do this. I'm really sad I did this now.
[Laughter]
The best time to do a project is five years ago, or right now. Those are the best times. If you wait – I mean, sometimes, you have to wait because life or certain things like that. But if you can do it, do it as soon as you can.
Even as you're talking about needing to sell the house but not toughing it out in that kitchen. I see all those posts you're making on Twitter of all the things you're baking, that you're clearly enjoying your (laughs) kitchen in a way you couldn't before. That's huge. You should be enjoying your house, even if you are going to sell it in a few years.
Carol Walsh (23:29):
You do it when you can and when you're ready. And the reality was between the little kids and the financial and all the things, we couldn't really do it until now. But I am so glad that we didn't wait any longer.
The amount of enjoyment I get from walking into my kitchen every day to make myself a cup of coffee – my coffee corner, see that?
Marilyn Moedinger (23:54):
I see that up there, yeah.
Carol Walsh (23:55):
This is my favorite thing of my whole entire kitchen because I had to battle to get that thing. My husband was not convinced (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (24:09):
But now, it's your favorite thing.
Carol Walsh (24:11):
It is. And he loves it too.
Marilyn Moedinger (24:13):
Okay, good.
Carol Walsh (24:14):
He does; he does. But I want to do take a moment about that, which is designing things with your spouse.
Sheri Scott (24:23):
Yes. Let's hear about that.
Carol Walsh (24:25):
I mean, it turned out great.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (24:29):
And you're still married.
Carol Walsh (24:30):
And we're still married. We celebrated our 30th anniversary. But I will say that we have done so many projects together, building things over the years that it prepared us for this.
Marilyn Moedinger (24:47):
This wasn't your first rodeo.
Carol Walsh (24:49):
This was not our first rodeo. And so, we understood already each other's strengths, the things that we … he's much stronger than me. His arms are strong. We had a one-foot soffit that separated the dining and the kitchen area here.
And pulling out the framing for that soffit and cutting that with the Sawzall and doing that work, that would've taken me forever. If I could've even accomplished it. And I'm pretty strong. I'm a farm girl; I can haul hay. But even that was like, wow.
But then on the other side of it, I have an insane level of detail eye. So, I see every little “That's not right. That's not going to … there's one staple that didn't get pulled, it's going to mess up the flooring.”
Marilyn Moedinger (25:43):
(Laughs)
Carol Walsh (25:44):
That's my strength, it’s the detail work. And I do all the painting and all that kind of stuff. So, we already knew going into this, our strengths. So, there wasn't a lot of battle about what our positioning was going to be. Probably, the hardest thing for him was letting me be the lead. Letting me be the full GC overseer of this project, designer.
And having him go, “I don't really know if I like that sink, or I don’t know if I really like that color.” And I'm going like, “Honey, I'm the realtor. I'm the person who looks at kitchens every day and understands what people don't like and do like. So, let me have this. Trust me to do this, to come up with this thing.” And he's super happy now.
[Laughter]
He's like, “It turned out great.” But we had a lot of battles in those moments of making big design decisions, but somebody has to lead. And that was the point that I wanted to end with, which was, you can be a team and be very strong in your ability to work together or do a project like this, but somebody has to lead.
Marilyn Moedinger (27:02):
I think that's a great point because you hear these horror stories of a project (especially on our side as architects or as contractors or whatever) where you're working with a husband and wife and the husband calls and says, “We're doing X, Y, Z.” And then 10 minutes later, the wife calls and says, “No, we're not.”
And then all of a sudden, you, as the professional, are between. It's not cool, and it costs money and time and strife and whatever. So, one of the best things from our perspective on the industry side is when couples do present a united front.
It doesn't mean that we don't have things we talk through in the meeting so that we're not compromising on design things or whatever, that happens all the time. But it can't be that someone is undermining the other one.
There has to be the one who's the communication person, even if they're not the one who's making the final decision, that's collaborative. But there has to be one person who's the point person, or else it's going to be a mess (laughs).
Sheri Scott (28:07):
And a lot of times, we have clients where one will be in charge of the overall style, “Okay, we'll do it your style.” And then the other one is in charge of the kitchen appliances or something like that. They do (some of my clients) part out who's the lead for which decisions to make.
Because that's a good point, Carol, just to have that conversation before you start, or even in the beginning when you're starting to feel some tension, to just say, “Okay, this really is my project, and you're going to be happy in the end. So, let's keep moving.”
Marilyn Moedinger (28:48):
There's an aspect too of what you're saying, that is, it's about what your strengths are. It's also about what you care about too. And that's where those two don't meet can be complicated. So, if someone's like, “Well, my strength is not in the details, but here is a detail I really, really, really care about. And I don't want it to get lost in the mix.”
So, then the other partner is like, “Okay, I'm the detail person, but I have to remember to bring this other thing in because that's important to my partner.” And you guys, it sounds like you guys have had years and years of experience with that.
Carol Walsh (29:20):
Thank goodness we sort of had as much experience as we did doing projects and working together and stuff like that. But there were times where my husband was absolutely ready to murder me because I was like … we did all the subway tile, and we'd never done tile before.
And so, we broke it down, and we consulted all of our people. We watched a bajillion videos, we psyched ourselves up the way that we had for installing the cabinets. And we decided that what made the most sense was for me to be the mud person, the placer of the tile, and for him to be the cutter of the tile.
And we kind of got into a nice rhythm, and we were feeling really good about it. And we're like, “Okay, yeah.” And then we got to the electrical plugs (laughs). And it went downhill real, real fast after that.
Sheri Scott (30:22):
(Laughs).
Carol Walsh (30:23):
And we really had to pull it together and not battle over it. And so, we figured out the way, we got through it. We had challenges, again, with those darn quartz countertops and your walls not being perfectly level and having to feather that mud to get yourself – all the things. We were learning it, we were doing it, and feeling really good about it.
We got to the end of it, and I said, “Honey, it needs a pencil tile on top. We can't leave it like this. It's not finished.” And he just looked at me and was like, “You're insane. I'm not doing pencil tile. I don't want to cut those tiny little pieces; you're killing me over here.”
And I just said, “Honey, no, I'm sorry. You're going to have to figure it out because it's not going to look finished otherwise. It's not going to look proper. It's not going to look the way we want it to look.” And so, we joke now that he's always like, “Isn't that pencil tile amazing?”
[Laughter]
Because he ended up doing a great job cutting it because he had already practiced on the bigger stuff. He'd thrown all the pieces he'd gotten mad at, and I was over there working with those cuts and going, “Honey, that's not a 45.”
[Laughter]
Carol Walsh (31:45):
“That's a 20 or something. I don't even know what that number is. So, you're going to have to recut it again because the measure is not perfect, and I'm not going to grab that.” And so, part of this is having quality control for yourself. And not just being like, “I'm tired and I'm done.”
Marilyn Moedinger (32:06):
Yeah, you got to dig deep.
Carol Walsh (32:09):
You got to dig deep. But you also have to be overseeing your other subs who are doing their work. Because there were things that I had to come back and go, “Hmm, guys, that's not going to fly. Love you. But you need to fix that.”
And because these are … except for the drywaller, I had known or worked with before using them in my real estate context. It was not unexpected (laughs) the fact that I am known for being extremely detail-oriented, and I'm not just going to let wonky stuff slide.
Sheri Scott (32:45):
I think for our listeners to really step back and hear this and assess whether you really can do that job, because it is not an easy job to do that yourself. Yes, you saved a lot of money, and you have a husband that you work well with.
All of those things (and you pay attention to details) need to happen, or you need to hire somebody that can do those things for you, which is great also. But you really have to be honest with yourself if that's in you to end up with a great project.
Carol Walsh (33:24):
No, I just want to really emphasize that point because the only reason we took this on was because I have a lot of skills and he has a lot of skills, and we've been doing a lot of projects over the years, but we also understood what we were not great at. Like the drywall or the floor.
It's like, “Yeah, well, we could do it, but it's not going to be at the higher level of finish that we are expecting and wanting to produce.” We did not want to produce a kitchen that looked like we did it ourselves.
We wanted it to look like it was a professionally done kitchen. And so, that meant we had to pick and choose things that we actually knew we could accomplish, or call in other friends who are professional in that way and could advise us, and step in in that way.
But don't minimize the negative effect of doing things that you frankly have never done in such a major big project. Start in your shed. Start some sheds in garages and all those – that's where we started. And so, we didn't just jump into doing a kitchen.
And so, I see a lot of folks who watch HGTV and think, “Oh, I could just go in there and do that, and it'll be fine.” It won't be, it won't be. And so, hire Marilyn or Sheri to be the person that you need to tell you, “Hey, great, you guys want to do all the painting? Fantastic. Have you ever built anything?”
Marilyn Moedinger (35:21):
(Laughs).
Carol Walsh (35:21):
Because sometimes you do need an authority-figure type of person to kind of give you the come-to-Jesus talk about what is realistic. If you don't, that's when people get into real trouble. And I see that so many times in the market where people think, “Ah, I can do that.” And then, not only do they not do it, they never finish it.
Sheri Scott (35:48):
That's the hardest part.
Carol Walsh (35:52):
That is the worst thing. And I (talk about marriage counseling) walk into situations like that, and it is not pretty. And so, now, I've got to figure out how to finish that kitchen or finish that bathroom or do whatever it is to sell that property. And now, you're spending so much more money on top of-
Marilyn Moedinger (36:15):
Yeah, than if you would've just done it. Before we land on our final question here, I want to ask (because I know, well, I'm pretty sure our listeners are curious) from your professional perspective as a realtor, what are those things?
So, you did your kitchen with resale in mind. This is a question we get all the time. How do I make decisions in my home that are good for resale value? So, what are the top two or three things that you did in your kitchen that you're like, “I know this is a good move for resale,” since you're selling in a couple of years?
Carol Walsh (36:54):
Yeah, that is probably one of the hardest questions. So-
Marilyn Moedinger (36:59):
(Laughs)
Carol Walsh (37:00):
Number one for us is think about neutral things. Don't impose your color vibes and in really specific ways that cannot be undone. If you want to do that with paint, fantastic. Don't do it with the backsplash. One of the biggest things I hear from buyers when they walk into a kitchen is, “I hate that backsplash.” And even though I know it's not the end of the world to change it-
Marilyn Moedinger (37:37):
It's like, mentally it's-
Carol Walsh (37:39):
Mentally, it throws them right off. And so, we built a lot of work thinking about the backsplash, and because we couldn't afford to take the quartz all the way up the wall, which would've been my first desire.
And so, we just went, “You know what, long, plain subway tiles.” It's just never bad. It's never bad. And it's just a nice neutral place. And we really put the money into the countertops and having those be really beautiful.
And the second one is the cabinet style. And I see a lot of people going real mod or real old-fashioned, and it doesn't make sense with the rest of the house, there's no context. There's no story happening.
And we really wanted it to be like there's some little craftsman hints in there, but it's not specific, but it can also flow into a little mid-century mod with the light fixture. And we're pulling in this big farmhouse sink because that's what people like. People like big sinks. That's not going away.
And so, those three things were kind of like, if you could nail those in a way that is neutral, that still makes it fun and exciting and interesting, add your personality in the other spaces. Keep your backsplash, your countertops, your cabinetry thoughtful and classic. You can play with everything else.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:28):
Exactly. And if you are going to be there forever, or if it's the next 15 or 20 years, then do the crazy backsplash because then you can tear it out, or the next person can tear it out. But if you're looking to sell in the next few years, that makes a ton of sense.
Carol Walsh (39:44):
And I'm a huge fan of people living in their house and loving it. So, if this is your forever house, man, knock your socks off. Do it.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:56):
Hot pink cabinets. Let's go (Laughter).
Carol Walsh (40:00):
Let's go. But I also know that life happens, and you may have intended for that to be your forever house, and then a job changes or a family situation or whatever it is happens, and it ends up, you do need to sell that house.
And so, those personalizations. Hey, you might want to listen to me when I say, “Hey, let's knock out the red backsplash and just put in some nice subway tile.” That doesn't mean that you couldn't have enjoyed it and used it all those years that you were there.
But just be open if it happens to either your designer, your realtor, whoever your professional is that's helping you, to go, “It's okay to put that down now. You don't have to fight for the red backsplash until you're dead.” You can just say, “I really enjoyed that red backsplash, but I know it's not for other people.”
Sheri Scott (41:06):
And I like how you said it's your house and you want to love it while you live in it. And there are different things that can make you love it. And we always ask people (because projects are hard and they're long, and working with your spouse through it is hard and long, I'm sure) what is something in your project that just every time you see it, you're like, “Oh, I love this, I love this so much?”
Carol Walsh (41:37):
Probably the coffee station, because I use it so much.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (41:41):
I wondered, yeah, I thought maybe we already had that answer.
[Laughter]
Carol Walsh (41:44):
And it’s in a pullout drawer, which I love. And I got my microwave right above it, and it's like I can just go over there and warm my milk and make my cappuccino, and I have all my things, and it just makes me … it's just a nice way to start the day. And it makes me feel really, really happy.
But as Marilyn knows, I've been baking like a crazy person. And so, part of that is feeling inspired by my kitchen. Feeling inspired now to do things that I've never done before. I've never made Danish pastry in my life, but there I was with four and a half pounds of dough spread out across that whole counter, which I can now use to roll things on.
I couldn't do that before because I had disgusting yellow tile with black grout, and eww. That wasn't happening. I couldn't get a board big enough to put all that dough on. And so, I needed a counter I could actually use. And so, that gives me tremendous joy to produce something tasty and yummy, and then look at it sitting in my kitchen.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:02):
And that's the thing. I know everyone has a budget. I certainly did when I did my house. We all do. But it's hard to put a price on something like that. It makes it worth it. And especially if you're making smart-budget decisions along the way and whatever.
Putting a price on being able to be inspired by your kitchen. That's amazing (laughs). And to start each day at a moment in your kitchen where it feels like a good way to start the day, I don't know, that seems pretty priceless.
Sheri Scott (43:34):
Yeah, and it's hard to put a value on that.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:40):
So, yeah. Well, I think that's a good place (chuckles) to stop. You can't go much higher than that. So, really appreciate you joining us today, Carol. It was really fun to hear your story.
Sheri Scott (43:51):
Yeah, thank you.
Carol Walsh (43:54):
Well, it's been a blast, and it's so fun to talk about the whole process, and hopefully, it helps other people think through what they want and what they're able to take on, and where they need help, so-
Marilyn Moedinger (44:11):
I really appreciate it.
Carol Walsh (44:13):
Alright, guys. Well, it's been a blast, and I look forward to seeing you again.
(Transition)
Marilyn Moedinger (44:17):
Well, that was fun.
Sheri Scott (44:18):
Yes.
Marilyn Moedinger (44:19):
(Laughs)
Sheri Scott (44:20):
A different perspective than we've had before, where she did it all herself, essentially. Especially scheduling everything and being in charge of it all.
Marilyn Moedinger (44:32):
Yeah, for sure. And my biggest fear is (I mean, she did mention what she spent on the project) that everyone hears that number and then thinks that that can be replicated, and forgets-
Sheri Scott (44:46):
That’s not a realistic number.
Marilyn Moedinger (44:46):
All the stuff (chuckles) that she had to do to make that happen.
Sheri Scott (44:49):
All of the work. I mean, she had a job, she had a full-time job with that.
Marilyn Moedinger (44:52):
A full-time job. Yeah, 7:00 AM to 10:00 PM (she was saying) for a month straight. And that was after she had designed it, bought all the materials, staged all the materials.
Sheri Scott (45:02):
Procured everything, yes.
Marilyn Moedinger (45:04):
Oh, my gosh. Called Home Depot until they told her that the boat was in the harbor-
Sheri Scott (45:09):
(Laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (45:09):
Or out to sea or whatever. That's real. So, I appreciate her being really frank with that. And I hope people hear the reality of that (laughs) because it's intense.
Sheri Scott (45:23):
One thing she said early on, which I really loved, was that she went about the design, knowing that she intentionally wanted to add character. That there wasn't character in her kitchen or her house before. And to intentionally do that and be aware of it, I like that a lot.
Marilyn Moedinger (45:44):
Yeah, for sure. And to know that you can do that, you can add character while also keeping an eye on the thing she was saying at the end, about keeping things neutral and keeping things accessible to a wide variety of potential buyers. You can still do that. And that comes from thoughtful design, and it comes from that kind of stuff.
I also really appreciated the comment – and I already underlined it in the main episode, so we don't probably have to dwell on it too much now, but just her comment to “Do it sooner.” That's what she learned.
Sheri Scott (46:16):
And “Enjoy it,” yes.
Marilyn Moedinger (46:17):
And “Enjoy it” (laughs). Which clearly, she is. I think that's important. But also, kind of tied in with what she was saying about the timing. They couldn't have executed this project (she said) with little kids. So, there's that.
They couldn't have executed it without the years of experience that they had built together as a couple, as a partnership, and the knowledge that they built up and the timing in life, and all that. It did happen when it was supposed to happen, but also like don't wait. I think balancing that was something it seems like they did really well.
Sheri Scott (46:52):
And I know we've talked about this before, where our clients sometimes will wait so long (and I 100% understand waiting and saving up money and having it be the right time financially and family-wise and all of that), but underscore the fact it will never be less expensive than it is today.
Marilyn Moedinger (47:12):
1000%
Sheri Scott (47:13):
Prices will never go down. Even in COVID when they were skyrocketing, people would say, “Well, we'll wait because maybe lumber's going to come down.” And lumber is a commodity, which is a little bit different, but it doesn't come down.
Marilyn Moedinger (47:25):
No, it doesn't come down.
Sheri Scott (47:27):
It may stabilize for a while, and we will catch up to it a little bit, but it's never less expensive ever.
Marilyn Moedinger (47:34):
Nope. And I think the forces that (we're not about to turn this into a macroeconomics podcast) are playing into that, whether it's tariffs or whether it's the lack of trade labor, which has been a problem in this country for decades.
There’s a lot of factors that aren't just about, “Oh, prices are kind of high right now.” There are big sweeping things that are going on and have potentially been building for a long time. And that's why I said the best time to do a project is five years ago, or now. It's not going to get cheaper.
So, I think at the same time, balancing that with (as you're saying) a financial need or family need. If you're going to save up for another year, then make sure you're saving up meaningfully, not another $10,000.
It's not going to move the needle, it just isn't. And it's frustrating to have to say that. I wish I could say something else, like, “Wait a month or wait a year or whatever, and it'll come down.”
Sheri Scott (48:33):
I liked her DIY advice, that was very good. Because I think a lot of people want to do a lot of the work themselves, whether it's to save money or just interest in it. There are a lot of good pieces of advice in there from her.
Marilyn Moedinger (48:51):
Absolutely. And then understanding what your strengths are in that regard too. I would never do tile, not in 100 years. I just wouldn't. It's one of the few things that I won't touch. I just won't. I will do almost everything else.
And she was like, “We're not doing flooring, and we're not doing drywall, but I will do the tile.” And so, understanding (chuckles) maybe even what your personality or what you're excited about or whatever, because it's going to be a slog, so you want to make sure to pick things that you like to do.
But yeah, I think the DIY aspect of it is something that people generally underestimate. So, I was glad to get her perspective as someone who has done it before and learned those lessons and figured out how to stick it out and how to get the best result. And you still have to use some subcontractors. You can't-
Sheri Scott (49:40):
Yeah. She didn't do everything, but she managed those subcontractors, which, if you have a GC, that's what they do.
Okay, well, that was a good one.
Marilyn Moedinger (49:51):
Yeah, super fun.
Sheri Scott (49:52):
Thanks for joining us on Home: The Second Story. If you'd like to come on the show and share your story with us, email us at admin@htsspodcast.com. We'd love to have you as a guest.
For more inspiring homeowner stories and tips, we'll see you next time.
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Voiceover (50:09):
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