In this special holiday episode of Home: The Second Story, we talk about the impact of the holiday season on residential architecture — both in how homes function and how clients think about their spaces. As residential architects, this time of year brings a unique set of challenges and insights. The conversation starts with a shared reality: everyone wants to be “in by the holidays,” but timelines rarely allow for that. Finishing construction projects in December is complicated by shorter days, worker availability, and seasonal slowdowns across permitting and trade schedules. We often find ourselves having to reset expectations around what’s actually possible.
But while it may not be the best time to build, it is a great time to plan. Holidays put pressure on a house — large meals, extended families, sleeping arrangements — and that pressure helps reveal what works and what doesn’t. We encourage people to keep a running list of things they love and things that drive them crazy during the holidays. From where people gather, to where the Christmas tree goes, to what makes hosting feel either effortless or frustrating — it’s all data that informs future design.
We also dig into lighting challenges in the dark winter months, kitchen layouts that either support or hinder multiple cooks, and the subtle impact of things like electrical outlet placement or rug safety for multi-generational guests. Storage — especially for seasonal décor — comes up, and we talk about the rise of the scullery or second kitchen as a functional space to support larger gatherings.
Importantly, we all agree that the size or formality of the home doesn’t matter nearly as much as how it supports the people living in it. Sheri shares a moment from her early days hosting with pizza and paper plates, reminding us that hospitality isn’t about perfection. Taylor stresses designing for accessibility and comfort, especially when entertaining older guests or little ones. Marilyn reflects on her 300-year-old family farmhouse, emphasizing how spaces that hold generations of memory can be the most meaningful of all.
Jon Gay joins us to talk about his upcoming move to a new home and how much he’s learned through this podcast in planning that transition. As always, we close by reflecting on one thing we’d each change and one thing we love about our homes during the holidays — a perfect way to wrap up a thoughtful and heartfelt episode about designing homes that support real life and real memories.
Second Story Christmas Episode
Speakers: Sheri Scott, Marilyn Moedinger, Taylor Davis & Jon Gay
[Music Playing]
Voiceover (00:03):
Everyone says how horrible it'll be to renovate or build your house, we're here to say, it doesn't have to be that way.
Join three seasoned architects as they interview homeowners who recently completed a large project, and ask them one simple question: what do you know now that you wish you knew before you started?
Welcome to Home: The Second Story Podcast.
Sheri Scott (00:26):
Hi, and welcome to Home: The Second Story.
We're three residential architects sharing real conversations with homeowners who've taken on custom home or renovation projects. If you haven't already, check out our first episode to hear more about us and why we're doing this.
I'm Sheri Scott from Springhouse Architects in Cincinnati, and I'm joined by my co-hosts …
Marilyn Moedinger (00:47):
I'm Marilyn Moedinger of Runcible Studios in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and Boston, Massachusetts.
Taylor Davis (00:53):
And I am Taylor Davis from TPD Architect in Birmingham, Alabama. And we are recording this in the midst of the holiday season. Today, is December 2nd, and so we are in the throes of the Thanksgiving, winter holiday, New Year's extravaganza (laughs).
And we thought that it would be fun to talk (well, maybe not fun, but mostly fun) a little bit about the holidays and how that impacts what we do as residential architects, both in terms of construction and thinking about people's houses, and how they think about their own houses during the holidays.
So, we wanted to talk between us. We're also going to loop in our mysterious producer, Jon, at the end of the episode as we talk a little bit more about holiday traditions. Let's get moving.
Let's talk a little bit about the gift of time, which seems to be in short supply over this season as we all experience between projects wanting to wrap up, projects wrapping up, and the days are short too. It gets dark at like two o'clock in the afternoon. So, time really is a big question, I think, for everybody here.
So, let's talk a little bit about time. How does timing impact the holiday season or how does the holiday season impact timing for you all?
Marilyn Moedinger (02:22):
Well, I think one of the big things, and by the way, I would like some credits- anyone's watching on YouTube on my Christmas lights. They're forming a halo over my head right now.
Sheri Scott (02:30):
Very festive.
Taylor Davis (02:32):
Angelic, and very festive.
Marilyn Moedinger (02:34):
I know. I think timing-wise, there's a lot of things that go into it. So, if you are contemplating a project, you want to get it started well before the holidays. So, the joke in sort of architecture circles is that people will call us in January or in July and say, “Hey, we want to do a big renovation, we want to build a new house, whatever, and we want to be in by the holidays.”
And we say, “Great. So, in two years, the holidays in two years?” And they're like, “No, no, no, the holidays that are in five months from now.” And that's not going to happen. So, I think being realistic about how long a project takes and understanding that being in before the holidays does take a lot of advanced planning.
Sheri Scott (03:18):
Not only the length of the project, but trying to finish something right up against the holidays is just so incredibly stressful. People are taking off time, you want your contractors to be happy on site, (laughs) and they want to take time off too. And so, at that point, at that pressure point where it's very hard to finish any project, then you add all of those stressors on top of it, it can be incredibly frustrating.
Taylor Davis (03:52):
I also think there's a lot of competition for that work around this time of year, and it's coming from people who have big projects. So, I'll take the example of wallpaper and paint. Everybody decides they want to re-wallpaper their powder room right before the holidays — well, that wallpaper person has got 50 other people who also want to re-wallpaper their powder room right before the holidays.
So, even though it's a small project and you think, “Oh, this won't take about a week,” you got to realize there's a very few number of people that do that, and a whole lot of people who have your same brilliant plan, which is not a bad plan, it just means it may need to happen in February, like Marilyn said, for next year as opposed to the first week of December.
Marilyn Moedinger (04:32):
Just like in all realms, time slows down over the holidays. So, now, we're finding it's basically a week at Thanksgiving, you're not really doing meetings or doing stuff that whole week, and then whether you're talking about contractors doing estimates, you're talking about permits at jurisdictions, basically, they're sort of checked out after about December 15th.
So, you really, when you're in mid-November, you're basically at the end of the calendar year. That means that if you're trying to get a project started or get something rolling, you need to be thinking about that September 1st, October 1st at the latest to kind of get in. So, people are quite surprised how much time is lost.
So, you might say, “Oh, well, I gave the contractor my project to estimate on December 10th, he should have it back to me before the holidays.” That's not going to happen. And in fact, it's going to be January 10th if you're lucky, because that isn't a full four weeks.
Like you are off, and so is the building department, so is the contractor, so is everybody and everything just slows down. So, it's not a bad thing. Everyone should have a break at the holidays, but it's just important to keep that in mind as you're planning.
Taylor Davis (05:52):
And I'll say though, there is a flip side to this, which is, it is a good time to be planning your project. It is a good time to be thinking about your project. So, while it may not be the right time to call the wallpaper hanger, it might be the right time to call your architect because if you are in the process of entertaining and kids coming home and being in the house or them bringing guests home (I'm speaking from my personal purview), and it may become very clear to you, these are the things that aren't working very well right now.
So, while the expectation shouldn't be that you're going to get a new kitchen in by January 1st, the expectation might be you can sit down with your architect and come up with a list of things that you've noticed over your time over the holidays that you really want to be thinking about for your upcoming project. So, it's actually a really good time to have those conversations.
And I highly recommend taking advantage of this moment when there is a lot of pressure on your house to write down and make a list and think of the things that are driving you bananas or the things that you love and you don't ever want to change.
Like on the flip side, if you're going to do a renovation and you have had your Christmas tree in the same spot for the last 20 years, and that's the Christmas tree spot, you want to make sure that that doesn't get overlooked in the process of redesign. So, it's one thing to sort of get an expectation that things are going to get built, but the planning process can certainly start during this phase.
Sheri Scott (07:22):
That's a great point about especially keeping notes. Because you think back and you think on, I don't know (chuckles), depending on your personality, think on the good things or the bad things or maybe both. But to take actual notes about how you're feeling about it, how people fit in, how you think that your other guests felt.
And I was going back thinking of a few weeks ago, we posted an interview where the homeowner did a heat map of his existing house, and maybe you could use that philosophy with having guests over too.
Like where does everybody stand? We all know they're in the kitchen, but where would you rather them be? Where do people hang out for the after party? The people that stay late and (laughs) do you want them to stay late, or do you want to, like, shoo people out? There are just so many things that you could learn when you actually pay attention with that in mind during all of the things you're doing in your house.
Marilyn Moedinger (08:28):
I agree. And I think what can be useful as well, and I offer the service a lot to homeowners is that initial consultation that you have before you actually decide what the project is. A lot of times homeowners, I think, feel like they have to come to their architect with the project figured out: “We want this, we want to expand our kitchen, we want this addition, we want another bedroom, we want to fix the bathroom and move it over to here.”
And you can certainly do that, but that's not necessary, we're actually here to help people figure that out. So, if you just come to your architect with a list of like, “Oh my gosh, this completely drives me crazy and here's these 20 things and I don't know how to solve this,” that's exactly what we're here to do, is to help solve things.
And on the flip side, the good things too. So, I think keeping a list of that, and it can be helpful to actually meet with the architect in advance of that so that the architect can help you or the interior designer, whatever, can help you think through like, “Hey, pay attention to these certain things over the next whatever,” because there's a whole series of holidays.
I mean, we just came off of Thanksgiving when we're recording this, we're headed into more holidays, and so you're like in that mindset. But I think this is also one of the reasons why another time-honored tradition in residential architecture is this is why we get a lot of phone calls from people in January because everyone's like, “Oh my gosh, I just lived through all holidays, and whatever, and now-
Sheri Scott (10:00):
And I don't want to do that again.
Marilyn Moedinger (10:01):
Decorations, I'm burnt-out. January is this quiet month, New Year's resolutions, all that kind of stuff is happening, dry January, whatever. And it's time to kind of take stock and figure out and plan your year. And so, I mean, that happens to you guys too, right? Like in January, all these people start calling and you're like, “I know what just happened to you, you’ve been through the holiday.”
Sheri Scott (10:21):
Absolutely. Yeah. And it is, like, look forward at the next year, and what are we going to do this year? And thinking through it and think, “Oh, I'd really like to be in a new home by this time next year or a big renovation or whatever you're thinking.”
Taylor Davis (10:39):
Our little project definition service, which is kind of that initial consultation, but a little bit bigger than that, that service has been a Christmas gift to several of our clients. So, people have given that as a present to their spouse or to their parents, or to whomever.
And so, we're lined up in January ready to go, and it's a very thoughtful gift actually to be able to sort of say, “Look, we know your house is driving you bananas, and we're going to give you this gift to give you some options for some solutions.” Not sure who pays for the rest of it, is I'm sure, a giant question mark, and most people who receive that gift.
But nonetheless, it does make a great little gift if I'm going to give a plug. And I do think that January is the month that everybody's inquiries go through the roof; contractors get more inquiries in January, we get more inquiries in January, interior designers get more inquiries in January-
Jon Gay (11:35):
Podcast producers do too.
Taylor Davis (11:36):
Podcast.
Sheri Scott (11:37):
(Laughs) Nice.
Taylor Davis (11:39):
Did we call you in January, Jon?
Jon Gay (11:41):
I don't remember.
Marilyn Moedinger (11:43):
I remember. It was like July or August.
Taylor Davis (11:45):
And we are very grateful for that gift [Laughter).
Jon Gay (11:49):
Pleasure's been all mine.
[Laughter]
Taylor Davis (11:51):
Is there anything else about timing that we think is important around the holidays? What should homeowners be thinking about? We've mentioned it briefly before, but I think lighting around the holidays, especially when it gets dark at, like I said, two o'clock in the afternoon, how are you functioning in light?
I have a daughter that lives in Seattle. She has to have one of those little light boxes that she keeps on during the winter months. So, I think one of the things that time really impacts around this season because it's dark, is your lighting and you can tell really quickly you're using that artificial lighting for more hours during the day than you would the rest of the year. So, that's something that people come to us and they'll be like, “Our house is really dark at Christmas,” and that's something to think about.
Marilyn Moedinger (12:40):
Well, the other thing about timing and specifically about light that comes into play and in Boston, so Boston sticks way out into the ocean, so it gets dark really early. So, there's a period of time where it's basically getting dark at 3:30, like actual dark, and it's a few weeks where it's like that. And that really impacts construction because you have to light up the site, it's just that much harder to get things done in the dark, so you can't be working outside and that kind of thing.
And so, one thing, this goes back to my days from when I was working as a contractor, project manager and estimator and a laborer. Actually, this goes back to my laborer days, let's be honest — is the slowdown that happens on construction sites when it's cold.
Because if you are outside working and you've got gloves on and you're outside for eight hours a day, you are not moving as fast. Like your hands sort of get cold, you're fumbling around, you're dropping things. Like you can be as tough as they come, but if it's cold, you are not working as fast.
Taylor Davis (13:45):
Rebar is really cold in January.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (13:49):
It’s really cold. And a lot of tools, you can't operate with gloves on and it's unsafe. And not to mention winter weather, which is certainly a problem in the northeast. So, projects slow down naturally over that time. And I think this goes back to Sheri's point about trying to get things done before the holidays.
We do have a project right now that the goal is to get done before the holidays, specifically before the Christmas holiday, so we are going to make it. But that took so much planning to make sure, and the original completion date was before Thanksgiving. So, and now, we lost a few weeks not because if anyone did anything wrong, just because of the way things go.
So, I think that sort of timing and factoring in like when you start projects or whatever, but it's also like the people working outside on these jobs, like it's dark and cold, and you just aren't going to work as fast, and that's important to keep in mind.
Sheri Scott (14:50):
Taylor, the other thing I was thinking of in terms of how to design or things that we talk about in my office around the holidays, is they're so simple, but they're important, is electrical outlets (laughs), where are they? You may want them somewhere special that you don't use every single day, and the other thing is storage.
A lot of times, we talk about storage in general, but to specifically talk about holiday storage, and now, I don't know if your guys' neighborhoods are the same, but our neighborhood is insane at Halloween. And we even say, “Where do these people put all of this stuff that's out in their yard, it's crazy.” And I love it (laughs), but I don't know, how do you plan for that much storage?
Jon Gay (15:42):
Where do you store a 20-foot Home Depot skeleton? (Laughter)
Taylor Davis (15:44):
I don't know.
Sheri Scott (15:45):
And they’re huge skeletons, I know. It’s crazy.
Marilyn Moedinger (15:48):
But that thing is like scaring somebody in some garage somewhere.
[Laughter]
Taylor Davis (15:52):
I did literally just crawl up in an attic this morning to check on something, and it was kind of funny. They do keep their Halloween decorations upstairs. It was not the 20-foot skeleton, but as you come up the attic stairs, loaded across the rafter ties, is a skeleton looking right down at you-
Sheri Scott (16:08):
(Laughs) That's awesome.
Taylor Davis (16:10):
Scared scare the crap out of me.
Sheri Scott (16:10):
I love that.
Taylor Davis (16:11):
It was pretty funny (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (16:14):
But let's talk about that though. So, the unique moments that happen around the holidays, whether it's the 20-foot skeleton or the big meal, I think that's one of the biggest things that happens at all of these holidays that we're talking about.
I mean, I know people their whole lives who are like, well, I can't host Thanksgiving or I can't hold a Seder, or I can't do this or that because I literally don't have room for my whole family to be here, and we've all been there. But you also don't want to live in a house, or most of us can't live in houses, that have the formal dining room that can seat 20.
So, how do we help our clients? I mean, I think this is a constant question, like how do we help our clients kind of navigate the big meal, and all the guests?
Jon Gay (17:01):
I know that's something we're dealing with. My wife and I are moving later in December, and our house has gotten older, and we can't host anymore. We're really looking forward to in 2026 being able to host family dinner for 15, 20 people; we miss that.
Marilyn Moedinger (17:15):
Yeah, that's right.
Taylor Davis (17:15):
So, I think there are two approaches to hosting. I'm going to take on a very general and make lots of assumptions about most people in the world in my doing so (laughs), here I go, buckle up.
So, I think there are people (and I count myself in this) who like to have enough room for everybody to be at the table.
Marilyn Moedinger (17:37):
No kids table?
Taylor Davis (17:38):
Well, it depends, but generally for most of our family events, we have tried to get everybody at one table. It's a big table, but everybody around the table.
The other way, which my great aunt did for years, was she served off of the dining room table and put card tables literally all over the house. And everybody sort of rotated tables depending on where they were and you could either be in the TV room or you could be in the basement or the kids could be back in the formal living room or whatever it was. And so, it was a more sort of disseminated approach to the seating of people.
Now, the house itself was always big enough to hold everybody, and everybody gathered around that big dining room table to feast off of everything from — I mean, we eat ambrosia down here at Christmas time and eggnog that is heavily spiked with really good bourbon. But other than that, that was sort of the approach to it.
So, I think that's a question to ask yourself, that that may impact the way you space plan, are you comfortable with the kind of spread out entertaining, the spread out seating, or do you want everybody around the table? And I think there really are sort of two different ways of thinking (I'm sure there are more - I'm generalizing it to two) about that.
Sheri Scott (18:55):
Yeah, I was going to say there are so many-
Taylor Davis (18:57):
There are probably lots more. I know there's more, but (laughs).
Sheri Scott (19:00):
And I will share- not to downplay that at all, Taylor, because that is a lot of people. When I host, we host and we specifically don't have a meal because we don't have seats for everybody.
So, we do, like everybody sits on the couch and has their plate in front of them, and some people go get two things and some people go get a whole plate of things, and it's just very, very casual, which is just another option to do it. But I do want to share an integral moment in my life.
We were attending church at the time, and we were in our 20s, young 20s, early married. And we wanted to join this “Dinners For Eight,” that the church was doing. So, eight adults would get together and go to each person's house for a different dinner.
And we signed up not really thinking of it. And then we had to host first or something. And I went to my person, and I was so embarrassed and I just said, “You know what, we have nothing. We're not hosting, could we have it maybe at somebody else's house?”
And she just sat me down and said, “You have to host, like this is the point. We want to get to know you and how you are and how you live, and we don't want you to do anything more than what you have and what you do, and it's all good.”
And we did, we hosted it, it was so fun. I think we ordered in pizza from Domino's. It was not about the food. It kind of brings me back because we do typically large houses. If not large, then very nice houses and high-end stuff. And it just brings me back to: it doesn't even take any of that to have holidays and to host people.
Taylor Davis (20:53):
It doesn't.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:54):
That's right. I'm really glad you said that too because I feel like some of my favorite holiday memories, whether growing up or visiting friends and family, is sort of being totally squished around the table. There's not enough room and if you have to get up to go to the bathroom, three people have to get out of their seats to let you out.
Taylor Davis (21:11):
I remember that sweet time my great grandmother had too much Sherry and kind of sunk under the table and nobody recognized it until about 10 minutes later and she was halfway down the chair.
Marilyn Moedinger (21:21):
And I love that. And I think there's something really special about that. And the idea of hosting 20 people can happen even in a very modest space, even in a very small space. And we do a lot of higher-end projects and stuff in the Boston area that are small spaces because-
Sheri Scott (21:42):
Right. Yeah, you have a great perspective of that.
Marilyn Moedinger (21:44):
Yeah. And so, we've done all kinds of things from special foldout tables with chairs that hide in the closet, like in this special cubby. We've done everything from that to just acknowledging that yeah, when there's a big meal happening, there's going to be six people around the table, there's going to be four people at the island, but it's really close, and you're all just going to be yelling and having a good time.
And I think at the end of the day, like I want to get into some more strategies here about how to actually set up for entertaining and all that and we'll talk about that. But I think the underlying thing here is like, your house is already wonderful as it is to bring people over and have people in your life.
Taylor Davis (22:23):
Don't be intimidated.
Marilyn Moedinger (22:25):
We're not here being like: the five things you absolutely must buy before you can have people over. Like, okay, pizza and the paper plates, great, now you're done. After that point, it's about the way you want to set things up, and the way that you'd like to entertain people.
Jon Gay (22:44):
It sounds like what you're saying, Marilyn, is it's not about the house, it's about the home.
Marilyn Moedinger (22:47):
That's right.
Sheri Scott (22:50):
Very nice Jon.
Taylor Davis (22:51):
How Hallmark.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (22:53):
It's true.
Taylor Davis (22:55):
It's totally true. It's absolutely true. And I wouldn't trade any of those dinners with everybody crowded around a table and somebody throwing food under the table or the dog coming and eating somebody's chicken or whatever it is. Like making memories is really important.
Actually, I had a client send me pictures on Thanksgiving just this last week of, they had had an early Thanksgiving with some of their out-of-town children and they live in a three, two cottage that we redid the kitchen for so that she could cook. And they have all of these little nooks where they are able to have all the kids come and sit.
And she took pictures of how she had set all of these different tables so that her whole extended family could be there for Thanksgiving.
And we've watched these kids grow up, like these grandkids. They kept the grandkids while we were doing two of the three projects that we've done over there. And it was so nice to have a client come back to us and have it be like this … it's a very modest renovation.
I think we added 20 square feet to the house. This was not an enormous house by any stretch of the imagination, and it serves what she wanted it to serve, which is a place where she could have her family come and stay.
Now, she was cooking out of a much smaller kitchen before that, within the same footprint. And so, this all worked out, but it was such a lovely thing to get as an architect because what I could see on the backside was that our efforts and working through COVID and working through other projects had really sort of yielded a project that really, really worked specifically for what she wanted it to work for, and be able to see her kids and her grandkids and have them all gather for the holidays, and it really sort of warmed my heart. I loved it very much. It's very appreciative.
Sheri Scott (24:46):
That’s great.
Marilyn Moedinger (24:47):
I think too, those moments, I mean, I renovated my whole entire house. Like it was not habitable when I got ahold of it. So, it was a 1720s farmhouse that hadn't been inhabited for a long time and hadn't been renovated in 70 years, and I needed to do everything from scratch. And it was those moments that I was thinking about, that now we just had here- sitting around the table on Thanksgiving. Like what are those moments?
And I will say that it is great to be all squished around the table. It is super fun to be able to yell across the room and be like you're all piled in. And I grew up in a really big family and that's part of what it all is about. And I love living in a house, in a kitchen that I designed knowing that I did things because that's the way I like it.
And I think that's the flip side too, is like you can make do with anything and that's absolutely fine and great. And if you are renovating your kitchen, that's the time to do it how you want. And we've talked a lot about specific kitchens, tactics and whatever, and we don't maybe need to go into all of that now, but just to say like what are the things that make my house and my kitchen work for multiple people trying to cook at once. And one thing I'll say that's a little bit controversial (so hot take time, warning hot take) is my house being a really old house has separate rooms.
So, my kitchen is a separate room from the dining room, which is a separate room from the living room. Now, there's no doors, there's just doorways. So, there's like a three-foot opening that leads to each one, but that means that something wonderful happens on holidays, which everyone is in the living room and not under my feet when I'm trying to finish up … that last like 45 minutes, and then I have a separate area where the drinks are. So, if someone needs to get another snack and wine-
Taylor Davis (26:47):
That is the critical point, that right there — what we tell people all the time is that if you want an open kitchen, great, but put the bar somewhere else. Like put the bar in a remote location next to a television watching area or something. Because 50% of the time people are going in the kitchen not really to help you cook because they're looking for something else to drink. If you can move that outside of the path of work, you have opened up a whole new entertaining space that you didn't know you had.
And so, that's the anchor. I'm so glad you said that because that's really, for us at least, the thing that we talk about the most, is open concept kitchen is great if that's what you're looking for, but God, do not put the bar back next to your stove when you're trying to cook, put it somewhere else.
Sheri Scott (27:37):
And that works in any time of the year. So, we, at my house we have an open kitchen, open to not the dining room, but the kitchen table, and then open to the family room, and day in and day out, we love it. We love those three rooms being totally open, no walls, no nothing, it's perfect.
But then when we have a party, the only thing that bothers me about it are the dirty dishes. There's nowhere to get the dirty dishes away from the smaller island that we have. And we're putting out food and all of that and dirty dishes or piled up over here, and I don't even really care if people see them, but it's just kind of gross and splashing water.
And I don't know, that's the one thing that I think if I were to design my own house, which I'm not sure I ever will, because I think it's hard (laughs), too many stories. I think that I would probably design something that I still loved to live in every single day that takes 90% of the design solutions and decisions, but then that other 10%, if we can bring that in to where we do host, not necessarily just the holidays, but any guests that come over — if there's one thing that really bothers you, then maybe we can find a solution for that.
Marilyn Moedinger (29:04):
That's right. I will also say that there's such a thing as making a kitchen that's too big and especially if you like to entertain, and that includes you cooking and preparing, then having that space be too big and having too many doors and too many things to open and close and too many drawers and too much stuff and it's all spread out.
So, thinking about how you actually like to cook, that's not going to magically change when the holidays come around- like your personality isn't going to change. I think that's an important thing too.
And regardless of what a bunch of people are telling you to do, the most important thing is to know yourself and to know the things that you always wish you had or that you want to support. And if that means having a separate wine fridge, great. If you don't need that because you don't drink wine, who cares? Then don't have it. You don't have to do any of these things, it’s just about you and how you like to entertain.
Sheri Scott (30:12):
So, another thing that we do every other year at my house, I host a whole family gathering that's like, I don't know, 25 or 30 people, and everyone's in every room because there's too many people to only be around my small island (laughs), which is great.
But Taylor, going back to what you said for us, where the Christmas tree goes, my husband insists that the Christmas tree goes in the smallest room (laughs), which is the living room. And we love that room and it looks beautiful, the tree looks beautiful in there, if we would just want to sit in there in an evening or if we're coming downstairs in the morning and the lights are on, it's gorgeous.
But during that party when we do gifts, everybody wants to do gifts around the Christmas tree. So, then, we literally have 20 people crammed in that room or standing in the foyer like looking into that room. And that is one thing that I would figure out a different place for the tree to be, and somehow solve both of those problems without having two trees because I don't want to do that either. I don't want that extra work.
Taylor Davis (31:23):
Yeah, that seems like a lot. I have an undecorated Christmas tree in my family room right now that's just … I'm saying the branches are kind of settling. That's kind of my (laughs) …
Sheri Scott (31:33):
Mine’s half-
Marilyn Moedinger (31:34):
I just need to wait for it to settle.
Marilyn Moedinger (31:36):
Well, one thing too that that this makes me think of is seasonal gatherings. So, at least in this hemisphere, during the holiday season means that it's cold outside, generally, or more cold than summertime, so there's less hanging out outside.
And at least where I live, I have this massive patio that basically is the outdoor living room all summer. Like we eat out there, everyone hangs out, that's where all the gatherings are, that's where it is. And in the wintertime, it's too cold to sit out there. So, this idea of your entertaining might have seasonality to it and how does it work-
Sheri Scott (32:18):
Good point.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:18):
… with both those things. But I also want to bring up something that's been coming up that's kind of trendy and I kind of get irritated by trendy stuff, but this actually I think is something worth considering. So, I want to get your guys’ take as well.
Is the sort of double kitchen. There's a lot of reasons to do two kitchens. So, traditionally a lot of people had the canning kitchen, so around here farm areas, you'd have a canning kitchen or a Nonna kitchen-
Taylor Davis (32:43):
Or a kosher kitchen, sometimes kosher kitchens.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:46):
So, that's where I'm going. Also, that's where I'm going, is to say like that there are many traditions of which having two kitchens is necessary to make the house work. So, kosher kitchen and non-kosher and your Nonna kitchen, and your canning kitchen and these types of things.
Now, people are talking about catering kitchens or scullery or things like this where you have a place where the dirty dishes live that's different than the main kitchen, and I think it's fun to look at. This is why I like to look at old house plans and especially for big, old weird houses because you see these kinds of things.
You see a scullery that's separate from the kitchen, you see secondary kitchen spaces, you see this kind of stuff because back in those days, people had help. That's not as common these days for most people (laughs). But I think the two-kitchen thing is real for a lot of people and isn't just about the super fancy high end, it's actually a real need for a lot of people.
Taylor Davis (33:44):
You've done a bunch of them, haven't you Sheri?
Sheri Scott (33:46):
We have. We continue to, and they continue to grow (laughs), they keep getting bigger and bigger. And it's always interesting to me, the ones I like the most is when we can design it for a function, and it's truly functional back there. Like typically open shelves, lots of open counter space and pull-out drawers, baskets, those kinds of things, and planning for all of those individual things.
When I'm not super excited about it, still beautiful, but when it really is just a continuation of the kitchen where everything's behind high-end cupboards and it just really is another showpiece almost and not a working kitchen. I like a working pantry, I guess is usually what we call it, where you can put all of those appliances and leave them out, and you can have a second sink and dump all the dishes in there, and sometimes we have a second dishwasher, not very often anymore.
Now, we're doing one and actually, they are seating 20 (laughs) in a formal dining room. This is an amazing house that I am so lucky to get to be a part of. And we have a formal pantry where they are planning for caterers to come in and set everything up, and then the guests actually walk through that and do buffet style from the catering most of the time if they're not serving.
But that has been fun to design just because it's so different. It's so different from the way most people live, and they actually do have a normal kitchen with a normal pantry on the other side of the house, so that's not their everyday situation. I hope I get invited to dinner. That's all I can hope (laughs).
Taylor Davis (35:42):
Do a good job, Sheri.
Sheri Scott (35:43):
Right, I know. Stay nice.
Taylor Davis (35:46):
Stay nice, stay nice. I wanted to bring up my own personal soapbox about the holidays, which is a lot of times we are entertaining people of lots of different ages. So, we have little ones, and we have toddlers and we have elementary school kids and teenagers, and we have parents and a lot of times we have parents and grandparents and great-grandparents.
And I think there are some easy things that we can do to make sure that our homes are accommodating and comfortable for everybody who comes to visit. Electrical outlets are a big part of that. We don't want wires, especially at the holidays and people are lighting up trains and stuff on the floor. We don't want new stuff, crock pots, we don't want stuff that's like tripping hazard for people.
Jon Gay (36:33):
The teenagers are all charging their phones.
Taylor Davis (36:36):
Teenagers are all charging their phones, you've got people who are kind of running around willy-nilly, two-year-olds getting strangled by the cords, whatever it is. The grandmother falls — we really want to be careful about hazards that we can mitigate somehow, so cords are a big one.
Holiday throw rugs (I've yelled at my mother several times about this) a lot of times don't have any kind of slippery backing on them and they're really easy to slip and fall with. If you are thinking about a project and you're thinking about how you entertain generationally, think about having a bathroom that's accessible for someone who is in a wheelchair or with a walker.
So, make sure that that doorway is 36 inches wide, that it's easy to turn off and on the light. If there's a place, it doesn't have to be a full-on grab bar, but even just a shelf where somebody can have a place to sort of steady themselves, that's a really nice thing to think about — good lighting.
But you want to make it easy for people to come to your house and to enjoy your house. And that doesn't mean you need a closet for everybody's coats in Alabama where nobody's wearing a coat except for like three days of the year, but thinking about the bathroom and the kitchen, making it easy for somebody to get in your front steps. All of those things really come out in the holidays when you have all of these generations in the house together.
So, again, that's my own personal little soapbox, but if you are entertaining, remember those little things that might be a tripping hazard or might not be comfortable for somebody to use.
Marilyn Moedinger (38:02):
So glad you brought that up because there's more to hosting than just the meal, the eating of the meal, the prepping of the meal. So, thinking about location of the half bath for example, for accessibility reasons, but also so that it doesn't open onto the dining room.
Taylor Davis (38:19):
And a good fan in there. If it doesn't really need a fan, but you put a fan in there for noise purposes, always put a fan.
Marilyn Moedinger (38:29):
So, that kind of stuff. And then also other elements of hosting, whether people are coming to stay with you, so guest room space and that kind of thing. That's difficult in some of our projects, like I mentioned that are usually pretty tight and we don't have oodles of room for guest rooms and all that kind of stuff.
So, we've done Murphy beds a bunch of times or we've done combination home office, guest room that can kind of convert so those kinds of solutions are great. But it's the same thing. It's like it doesn't have to be fancy, but it does have to support someone's basic function. Like you need a bed, you need to be able to walk around all sides of the bed; ideally you have a bathroom for that person to use that is not far away or is the family bathroom or whatever or so.
Sheri Scott (39:13):
And not necessarily a Jack and Jill bathroom- that's my pet peeve for guests.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:19):
For guests, exactly. So, then all of a sudden, they're walking in and there's a kid in there-
Sheri Scott (39:25):
Or the door's locked.
Taylor Davis (39:27):
Which actually those make for really good holiday stories, like the time grandma walked in on me taking a shower as the 15-year-old boy that had that … those are funny.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (39:39):
And then I was also going to say about hosting people when someone's coming to stay is the next morning. Like that coffee and pastries and kind of the quieter moments of hosting and having family time together and having places where someone can read a book and snuggle up, and these are all kinds of things that … or watch the football game all together or whatever. Like what are the activities that you want to see happen, and then how do we make design that supports that?
Sometimes it's really, really easy. It's like okay, comfy chair in the corner, by the sunny window, done. Like it doesn't mean even redesigning something or building something, but I think sometimes people just see the pictures of things or on Pinterest, whatever. We really need to think about how it actually functions and that every time you reach for something that there's something that's there that you're like, “Ah, yes, this chair, it's in the perfect spot,” or that grab bar or that whatever.
Taylor Davis (40:40):
Alright. Can I put Jon in the hot seat for a second because I want to hear about his new house, and now that we've talked about all of these things that are probably like in my own mind I'm like, “Well, need to work on that in my house or I need to be thinking about that in my next project.”
You're talking about this move that you have upcoming. What were some of the reasons that you made that move and what's going to be easier about the holidays with this new move?
Jon Gay (41:04):
Great questions, Taylor. So, we are currently in a 900 square foot house where my wife and I both worked from home throughout COVID for five years and somehow still like each other.
Sheri Scott (41:13):
Good. Congratulations.
Taylor Davis (41:15):
Well done.
Jon Gay (41:16):
Thank you. And we are moving to a 2000 square foot house. We are in an old bungalow, ranch style with one main bathroom. So, when we have even one other couple over, we've got to hide the toothbrushes because it's all the same bathroom.
So, in this new house, we will have obviously the half bath downstairs, we'll have the master bath or I’ll say primary bath up by our bedroom, and we'll have the guest bathroom with two guest rooms.
So, it was one of my wife's big things: “I don't want to have to hide the toothbrushes every time somebody comes over,” which makes total sense. So, having more space, I'm going to have … as you can see behind me, this is my recording studio, it's my office. You mentioned Murphy beds a minute ago — for those watching on video, the credenza behind me is also a Murphy bed.
This room that I’m sitting in right now is — also I have an exercise bike just off camera here. It is our exercise room, it is my office, it is our guest room all at once. To be able to have those things as separate entities is something we're very excited about.
So, we've loved this house, we've got engaged and married here, but we've kind of outgrown it and we're looking for a bigger space and in a more desirable neighborhood that's right by our favorite taco place. We couldn't have picked it any better.
Taylor Davis (42:34):
Oh, that sounds spectacular.
Marilyn Moedinger (42:36):
Well, what about this new space is going to make holidays different for you?
Jon Gay (42:42):
My wife owned the house as a single person before I moved in with her and we got married. And when she first owned the house, the basement was furnished, so she would line the couches up, put a couple tables up in the living room, but there was overflow space for the kids to go play downstairs and things like that.
We have since had a basement flood. We've pulled up the carpet. It is no longer a usable living space, so we could maybe fit 10 or 11, and it would be tight upstairs right now. But one of the things we kept looking at as we were looking at homes, was can we lay out a long table or a couple long tables and have space for 15, 20 people.
The kitchen looks great, that's got a nice hood over the oven, which I know we've talked about in a previous episode, there's a microwave built into the shelving on the island in the kitchen. There are a lot of things we're just really, really excited about for this house, and the best part is it's three miles away.
So, we're going to take our SUVs and move most of the stuff on our own and we only have to have the movers for the furniture the last day, the Monday after Christmas. So, we're very excited about that too.
Taylor Davis (43:49):
Congratulations.
Jon Gay (43:51):
Thank you.
Taylor Davis (43:51):
And I know, I know we get all sorts of credit for giving you all the things that you need to look for in your new house (laughs).
Jon Gay (43:56):
Absolutely. I mean, I kind of, you say that in jest Taylor, but I kind of had the three of you in the back of my head of like, this space would work for this-
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (44:03):
That's amazing.
Jon Gay (44:10):
I will say at one point we were considering thinking about tearing down and rebuilding or building on our own. And there may be a time in our life where that's right for us, but having a lot of education working on this podcast with the three of you, on this process, we were able to find a home that ticked 95% of the boxes we wanted and we were like, “Okay, this is going to be in the home.”
And the home is practically move-in-ready. We've got to put a gate up in the driveway for the dog, but the backyard is fenced in a little bit smaller, the dog will get over it. And we've got to paint the two guest rooms because the family there now has two little girls and the rooms are pink, and nothing against pink, but if I'm going to be recording podcasts, I need to have a different color behind me. A more neutral color.
Sheri Scott (44:54):
Fair.
Marilyn Moedinger (44:56):
Well, I do always say that the only reason to do a custom home or a whole home remodel is if you cannot find something else that suits your needs because number one, it's more sustainable to go into a home that is already built. There's nothing more sustainable than an existing building. And it's less stressful to be able to find something. But then, luckily for us, there are plenty of people that can't quite find exactly what they want for that time in their life, and we get to work with them and make it happen.
Jon Gay (45:31):
And it's funny, on the flip side, the home that we're selling, that we're moving out of, we're in a neighborhood where there are (I don’t know if it's a derogatory term) McMansions going up everywhere where a lot of these older, smaller homes just getting knocked down, including the home next to us, and they're building these giant homes.
And we were 95% sure we would just sell it to a developer. They would knock it down and build something. But as it turns out, we sold to this couple that wants to buy it for their single daughter and have her move in.
And she's a single lady, it's the perfect size for her, and they really like the way the house is laid out. And so, we weren't expecting to sell it to somebody who is going to move into it, but that's how it turned out.
Taylor Davis (46:09):
Oh, that's awesome. And as far as being able to host people in a way, I don't know, I feel like that's a big part of why we have homes in the first place is to invite people over and to have everyone.
Jon Gay (46:26):
This is how we knew we found the right home because we were looking for two years, even since before I've been working with you all. My wife and I were at dinner with friends of ours one night and she said, “Yeah, I went out of the house with the carpet people to measure, and I looked around the house and I said, I can't believe this is going to be our house.” And I said, “Okay, I know we got the right house.”
Sheri Scott (46:44):
It's the right one. That's right.
Taylor Davis (46:46):
Aww, love it.
Sheri Scott (46:47):
And home is where you make the memories and the holidays are where the memories are made, and for kids to come back home and to establish new things that happen, it's really important to — you don't have to get it exactly right, but you have to put some thought into it.
Jon Gay (47:09):
Taylor, you'll appreciate this. We're going to move in the Monday after Christmas, and we're like, well, we should have a house warning party, should we wait until the spring? And my wife and I looked at each other and said, “We should have a Super Bowl party. The timing will be perfect.”
Marilyn Moedinger (47:22):
There you go.
Taylor Davis (47:22):
Yeah, here you go. Perfect.
Marilyn Moedinger (47:25):
I like it.
Taylor Davis (47:26):
Well done. I think the holidays can really sort of highlight all of these things that we are talking about when we're talking about houses. But the holidays are just one part of the year. A lot of this stuff is happening year-round and like we talked about at the beginning, it's a good time to sort of make that list, to be thinking about the things that you want to change or that you want-
Jon Gay (47:49):
Check it twice.
Taylor Davis (47:53):
So, if we're wrapping up the conversation, I think it would be fun for all of us to talk about the one thing that we would change about our own house related to the holidays.
If we were doing a project ourselves, at our own house and I know everybody's done some things to their houses or bought new houses or whatever. So, I'm curious to hear what everybody's one thing is — or wait, what's the one thing you love about your house and the way it functions about the holidays?
Marilyn Moedinger (48:20):
We can say both. One thing you want to change, one thing you like-
Taylor Davis (48:23):
We got two, we're the host, we get two. Okay, go ahead.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (48:28):
And then we can end on a positive. Yes.
Taylor Davis (48:30):
Alright, I'll go first. I would change the size of my kitchen, it's too big. It invites too many people into the space, and when I cook, I don't like to chitchat. I don't want people underfoot; cooking is not a spectator sport for me.
Cooking is something that I like to do and I'm very intentional about it, and if I've got timers going off, I don't want to have to be coaching people through whatever, I would rather have a smaller, a much smaller kitchen.
Marilyn Moedinger (48:59):
I like that. I'm with you. That's why I did mine the way I did. That's what I would do. Except mine is already good. So, here's the thing I would change.
[Laughter]
This one I'm like desperately trying to figure out the answer here, is I need to have a half bath on the first floor. So, there was no way to put it anywhere on the first floor. It's a small, weird, old footprint, I'm like I would have to do an addition.
And I've got drawings, I've got models, in the middle of the night I wake up and sketch out new ideas. I've got a bunch of ideas for how to do a mini addition that's basically a mudroom, and I want to put a full bath, so I have a full bath on the first floor.
Sheri Scott (04:57):
Yeah, that's a good idea.
Marilyn Moedinger (49:44):
You know while I'm at it if it's an addition because it's really important as like my great aunt is like coming over and I'm like I know she can't get up the stairs, that's just not acceptable. And everyone's getting older, including me, including all of us. And I had a cast for like six weeks last year, and it was tough, I wouldn't have minded a first floor. So, first floor half bath, that's what I would change.
Sheri Scott (50:13):
So, mine is similar to both. I'm going to say two. One is accessibility into the house that Taylor brought up because my mom is handicapped. She comes in a wheelchair and people have to carry her up the front steps to get in the house, and we make do, and it's family and it's fine, but I wish it was easier for her.
And the second thing, which I already mentioned are the dirty dishes. I think if I just had a bigger island, which we already have it taped out with blue tape on our floor right now, if I had a bigger island, which I will confess, I did call my contractor a month ago and he's like, “No, no. Not happening.”
Jon Gay (50:58):
Do as you say, not as you do, right Sheri?
Sheri Scott (50:59):
Exactly. I'm like, “Yeah, but I'm your friend, still didn't work.” So, those are the two things I would change for the holidays.
Jon Gay (51:09):
I think I kind of covered it in mine. The bathroom and the hosting space, which I am changing by moving.
Taylor Davis (51:15):
You are. You’ve already done it.
Sheri Scott (51:18):
Just a day late. You're moving in the day after Christmas, right?
Jon Gay (51:22):
(Laughs) Right.
Taylor Davis (51:24):
So, the one thing we love or maybe one of the things we love about the holidays, and I will say we have a sort of awkwardly large family room, which we've never really bothered to furnish very well, but at Christmas, we get a big tree and it fills up the hole (laughs) in the family room. So, it's the one time during the year that that room feels really right is when that Christmas tree is up.
And for a long time, we sort of battled furniture and what we were going to put there, and we have kind of a table that sits there and it's fine, but that room really shines with a Christmas tree in it. And so, I get excited when the kids are getting ready to come home and we put the Christmas tree up because that room feels like a good place to be again. And it's amazing how just for that one thing kind of fills that space, nothing else really could. And it was made for that. It was made for that. So, that's a nice thing.
Marilyn Moedinger (52:20):
I love that. The one thing I wouldn't change is super sentimental. So, I live in this house that was built by my great times 11 or 12 grandfather. And so, I'll get choked up right now even just talking about it, just having this house be filled with the 10th generation of laughter and telling the old stories and yelling and screaming, and having fun like in a good way like fun.
And then also the quiet moments, the sitting down to eat and sort of looking around and seeing everyone I love in the room, and knowing that those walls have witnessed that for 300 years, it's a feeling I cannot begin to describe adequately.
And the house, so when I renovated it, I was trying to do everything I could to touch as little as possible, to retain as much as I could of that feeling and of that. So, the house could be a lot more convenient in certain ways, but then I would be giving up that patina, the age, how all the stairs have a divot because 300 years’ worth of feet of my ancestors have walked up and down that, and they're carrying me out here.
Like I'm not moving, so (laughs) yeah that's something I wouldn't change. I didn't change it when I moved in and I'm not going to.
Jon Gay (53:53):
Now Sheri, let's just skip us because we can't talk now.
Sheri Scott (53:54):
I know.
Taylor Davis (53:58):
Mic drop, 300 years of Moedingers.
Marilyn Moedinger (54:00)
The Weavers.
Sheri Scott (54:06):
Alright, well maybe someday I'll get there and experience that.
Marilyn Moedinger (54:10):
Well, that's what we're creating now, is the generational homes for the future.
Sheri Scott (54:15):
Alright, well I will go next. It's not as exciting or emotional as that, but I do love just this morning (our bedroom is on the second floor) I came downstairs and Bob, my husband's kind of a techie, well gadget guy, and he has all the lights on timers. And so, when we come downstairs and it's dark outside, our Christmas tree light is already on in the living room.
And so, I come down, the lights are on, just the tree lights are on, it's so peaceful. And I'll go and make tea and go sit down in my living room, which we've talked about. I don't design living rooms very often because people don't really ask for them anymore. But I love my formal living room, and I do sit in it and just sit, and look at the tree, it’s beautiful.
Jon Gay (55:04):
I will say, since you love to ask your guests, what's one thing you love when you walk in your home and see it, let's use a cliffhanger since I haven't moved yet. Come back to me in June and I'll tell you my favorite thing about the new house.
Taylor Davis (55:15):
Yeah, there we go. We'll circle back for sure.
Sheri Scott (55:19):
Fair enough.
Marilyn Moedinger (55:20):
Perfect.
Sheri Scott (55:21):
And all the new memories and traditions you get to make.
Marilyn Moedinger (55:25):
Thank you so much for joining us on Home: The Second Story holiday edition. If you'd like to come on the show and share your story, email us at admin@htsspodcast.com, we'd love to have you as a guest. For more inspiring homeowner stories and tips, we will see you next time. Happy holidays.
[Music Playing]
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