In this episode of Home: The Second Story, we shift gears from interviewing homeowners to focusing on how we, as residential architects, actually work. It's just the three of us—Sheri Scott, Marilyn Moedinger, and Taylor Davis—having a candid conversation about the different ways we approach custom home design and renovation. While there's no one-size-fits-all model for architectural services, we share how our processes reflect our regional contexts, client types, and project scopes.
We begin by outlining the general responsibilities of an architect—creating the plans and specifications that contractors use to build. Regardless of whether it's a ground-up home or a complex renovation, the architectural process moves from broad concepts to detailed decisions. We all stress early alignment on scope, budget, and goals, emphasizing that good architecture starts with listening and learning from clients, even before any designs are drawn. Taylor introduces a concept they call “project definition,” which helps clients understand the implications of their goals before committing to a design path.
From there, we each detail how we handle pre-design and schematic phases. Sheri and Taylor focus on early cost clarity, while Marilyn explains how her firm builds out comprehensive bid packages, ensuring contractors have the same baseline for pricing. The conversation reveals regional differences in bidding practices and how relationships with contractors can shape project trajectories.
Design development and construction documents get equal attention. Marilyn describes her firm’s intensive, full-service model—meeting biweekly with clients, making live updates in digital models, and selecting everything down to cabinet knobs. Taylor’s firm also offers interior design, coordinating all elements from architecture to furniture. Sheri contrasts that by highlighting her more streamlined approach, often dictated by builder-led projects in her area. While her firm also does full-service work, they frequently make final selections during construction, allowing clients to experience spaces in real time.
As we shift into construction, we talk about our roles as advocates for the homeowner. Weekly meetings, clear communication, and detailed documentation are non-negotiables. We also address the emotional side of construction—helping clients manage stress and make confident decisions in the face of inevitable surprises. Throughout, we stress the value of teamwork between the architect, contractor, and client.
We wrap by encouraging listeners to take that first step—meet with architects, ask questions, and be honest about what they don’t know. Different architects offer different services, and finding the right fit is essential. Whether your project is a major urban renovation or a rural new build, there's a process—and a professional—that’s right for you.
Voiceover (00:02):
Everyone says how horrible it'll be to renovate or build your house — we're here to say it doesn't have to be that way.
Join three seasoned architects as they interview homeowners who recently completed a large project, and ask them one simple question: what do you know now that you wish you knew before you started?
Welcome to Home: The Second Story Podcast.
Taylor Davis (00:25):
Welcome to Home: The Second Story. We're three residential architects sharing real conversations with homeowners who've taken on custom home or renovation projects. If you haven't already, check out our first episode to hear more about us and why we're doing this.
I'm Taylor Davis from TPD Architect in Birmingham, Alabama, and today, I'm joined by my co-hosts.
Sheri Scott (00:45):
I'm Sheri Scott with Springhouse Architects in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:50):
And I'm Marilyn Moedinger of Runcible Studios in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and Boston, Massachusetts.
Today, we're doing something a little different. It's just the three of us, no guests, because here's the thing, there's no one size fits all process when it comes to designing and building a custom home. So, we're going to share a little bit about how each of us works, what's similar, what's different, and what we think makes for the best possible experience.
So, before we dive into the specifics, it seems to make sense to talk about what is generally how an architect works. How does this work? So, basically, an architect is in charge of creating the drawings and the specifications that tell the contractor what to price and what to build. So, that's it.
There's a whole wide variety of ways that might happen, from just buying some plans from the internet up to and including full service, where the architect is helping you pick out absolutely everything. But the architect's role is to take on that design process as well as all the things that go with it — understanding code, zoning, all that kind of stuff as well as the design and technical aspects.
So, I think we should just dive in. I mean, that's the basics. And I think we'll continue to explore and explain how that stuff works generally. But why don't we dive in?
Taylor Davis (02:12):
You will generally find most architects, whether it's commercial or residential, follow a sort of design process that goes from big decisions to small decisions. They may call it different things; their phases may be named differently. But the way it generally works design-wise is we find out what you've got, then we move to bigger decisions, and we filter our way down to smaller decisions.
So, regardless of who you're working with, and like I said, there may be some different ways, and we can talk a little bit about how we sort of put those chunks of decision-making processes together, but I think that's kind of in conjunction with the set of instructions for the contractor. It's a sort of roadmap for decision-making too.
Marilyn Moedinger (02:54):
That's a great add. I think it's important to say that a big part of what we're doing is not just drawing sort of in isolation, but we're collaborating with owners. We're helping them through a bunch of really complicated decisions.
So, it doesn't just draw itself (laughs), and each line on the paper is many, many, many, many decisions that have to be made.
Sheri Scott (03:14):
And that it's a process that we've been through a lot of times. And while every custom home as in the name, everyone is custom, everyone is different — we still have a process that we work through with each client.
Marilyn Moedinger (03:28):
Yeah, so the first step in that process is kind of what we call pre-design, schematic design, kind of carrying us up to the point where we can get initial contractor bids. So, from that very first introductory conversation with an owner up to the first design ideas up to maybe we're sort of getting those initial bids from contractors.
How do you guys do that?
Sheri Scott (03:52):
It really starts for us with the very first sit down, kind of meet and greet, finding out from the client what they need from us, what their expectations are, where they are in the process. Everyone comes in a little bit differently, and depending on how they found us. Did they find us through a referral? Do they love one of our projects? Did they find us on Google? Which surprisingly, a lot of our clients do.
So, we find out all of that in that first meeting, which I think it's different for a lot of different professionals, but we don't charge for that meeting because it's just as much for us to find out about the homeowner as it is for the homeowner to find out about us. And we take an hour, and we talk about what they want to do.
Like I said, their expectations, if they've ever worked with an architect before, if they're brand new to all of this, it all kind of depends where you start on the path. Once we've done all of that and we have an accepted contract (which could be a whole other episode here that we can talk through), we usually have another meeting with the homeowners talking about very specific things. But like Taylor said, in a broad sense, how many bedrooms? What's your square footage? What's your budget?
We work through all of those questions, and then we take it back on our side in our office and come up with some designs. Sometimes we come up with one design, sometimes we come up with three. Again, it goes back to kind of those expectations and understanding that it is an artistic process, and sometimes there is one solution that we want to get in front of you.
We try to get that first design in front of you very quickly as a sketch, as a model. It just depends how it's going in the office to what we put in front of you at the very first meeting.
Taylor Davis (05:53):
Fairly similar to Sheri in a lot of respects. I mean, I think there's an information gathering phase at the outset where, especially because we do a lot of additions and renovations, we are trying to gather as much information as possible.
So, we're getting surveys, we are coming and scanning the house to get some base drawings done, we're looking at zoning. We're doing sort of this information gathering to find out kind of what the actual physical parameters are.
But then we are also doing these conversations, whether that's in person, sometimes it's on Pinterest with like and loath boards or surveys, or whatever questionnaires to try and get what are your parameters? What are our homeowners’ parameters? So, there's this information gathering.
And we actually have a little separate process that we do at the outset of most of our projects. We call it project definition. Sometimes we both put it into pre-design if we know we're doing a project. But it's meant to address the “arm wave,” hand waving phase that most people do when they walk through their houses. They're like we're thinking this over this (gestures), and we could do this over here.
And so, what we want to do really quickly is get a sense of what the square footages are that we're talking about, what kind of levels of finishes there are, and kind of put some numbers around that. And I actually call it a “Come to Jesus” spreadsheet because it really is the moment where we say, okay, we're going to define the scope.
Before we've drawn anything, we want to know exactly kind of what the roadmap is for how we're going to get to our end point. And it doesn't make sense for us to keep designing stuff that you don't want to pay for.
So, that alignment very early, very, very early, literally before we have drawn a wall, is a really important part of our process because I think there can be, oftentimes — if people haven't done construction before, they don't know how much things are going to cost. So, understanding how what you want to do aligns with how much you want to invest, I think is a really important conversation to have very early.
So, our schematic design process builds from that point on, but we've already established a scope and kind of a general framework of where we think the construction budget is relative to what the homeowners want to do.
Sheri Scott (08:08):
I love that you do that, Taylor, and especially because you do mostly renovations. I think in my business, we do mostly ground up, and there's more rule of thumb for ground up construction that we can do based on square footage and what we know they're going to want in their home.
But I think with renovation, there are just so many unknowns. And for you to get your eyes on the project and then give your professional opinion before you start designing, that's a great service.
Marilyn Moedinger (08:42):
We do almost all renovations in the Boston area, in particular, because everything's already built. So (laughs), we're working on typically old homes and old buildings, and same thing, we have a process like that as well.
One thing that we do that's a little bit different than a lot of folks is we actually do our own existing conditions drawings. So, we go in, because these houses are wonky and there's not a straight line in the whole place, we go in and we actually measure them ourselves.
And it's a time for us to really get to know the house. When you're dealing with the renovation, especially with really tight parameters — and I might have a 2200 square foot townhouse on four floors that I have to fit four bedrooms, three baths, a family room, a kitchen, we've got to work some magic, and that means that I have to know about every inch.
And for us, that is not just measuring, it's also, for lack of better word, sort of communing with the space. Like being in there and kind of feeling it.
Taylor Davis (09:40):
Oh, Marilyn, our woo-woo architect friend (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (09:43):
I know. Yeah, I can talk about construction and also woo-woo stuff, whatever we need.
But that's actually a big part of it because buildings reveal their secrets and reveal their moments for opportunity, sometimes slowly, not on your timeline, whether you're being architect or owner. And that's what I also want to add about owners who have lived in the house for a while have all sorts of insights that I want to gather.
That's both a plus and a minus. If they've been in there for a while, they might be really trapped and well, this has to be like this because that's the way it has been for the last 15 years we've lived here. But then also they have a lot of insights that might be really useful. Like, “Hey, yeah, I know we can't remove this wall because there's three pipes going in it.” And I'm saying, “Well, actually we're redoing all the plumbing so we can move that” or whatever.
But our goal is to (and I think all of us share this) get to the what is the design and what are the basic technical aspects of this project so that we can get to an early construction estimate as fast as possible. Because we don't want to be … I don't know, I'm speaking for all of us now, but I mean, you guys are nodding, like yeah. We want to get to the point where we know what this thing costs as soon as possible.
Everyone's heard these horror stories about my architect drew all this stuff and it came in twice as expensive. That's not us. That's not what a good architect does. So, then we get to the bidding phase and for us, we create what we call a bid package, which has a set of schematic drawings in it.
And then crucially, for us, a five-page or so, single spaced document that explains every single aspect of the project and gives allowances, explains here's our strategy for HVAC, here's our strategy for electrical, here's our strategy for the structural. Because we want the contractor to be able to get all of that information and be on the same page.
If we're getting three different bids, we want them to all be thinking the same thing. This is the level of finish we're looking for, this is the technical aspects or the structural aspects. So, that's a big part of what we're doing as early as we can here in these phases.
Taylor Davis (11:53):
I'm going to jump in real quick because I think that's interesting. Because when you bring up bidding, I think all of us do it differently. And I think we could do a whole show about bidding.
Marilyn Moedinger (12:01):
We should do a whole show about it.
Taylor Davis (12:03):
We should do a whole show about it. But I think there are lots of different approaches to it and it depends on where you are, on the contractors that you're working with, whether or not you've been working with the same contractors forever. We try not to bid projects; we try to do a request for qualifications for projects.
So, we give them, similar to Marilyn, a sort of project precis, I guess, which is a set of a set of drawings and a set of preliminary specs that they can use for sort of understanding the project. Actually, we ask our homeowners to develop with us a list of questions of the things that are important to them for the contractors that they are working with.
Marilyn Moedinger (12:51):
Yeah, it's not just about the number, it's not just about the number.
Taylor Davis (12:54):
No, it's not about the number. I mean, we've had people say, “Look, we really want somebody who's going to feed the dog while we're gone.” And that's actually an important question to ask, it's not kind of a stupid thing.
So, getting in alignment — Ava Abramowitz called it front end alignment- and sort of figuring out who the right fit is at the beginning of a job. And we're all kind of in that realm, finding it out at the beginning.
We only ask generally one person to provide pricing after that RFQ process goes through. Figuring that we can kind of run numbers afterwards and sort of make adjustments where we need to, if we've got a team that's providing us pricing information early and often and continuously is kind of the goal.
Sheri Scott (13:36):
Yeah, and Taylor, I think our process is a little more like yours. Again, we do ground up construction. So, really, there are only so many general contractors in our area that can do the level of home that we design.
So, that's our first service to our client, is to say, “You probably want to talk to these three or four, just have an informal meeting with them. Go through a house that they've done, talk to them, see if you like them because you need to like them, because you won't like them a hundred percent of the time the entire way through. So, if you can at least start out (laughs) liking them, you're better off.” So, the personality is really important.
Sometimes we go on those meetings, sometimes we don't. But at those meetings we do ask them, “What was your latest square foot cost project?” And we're not necessarily looking for a hard number there to use as a calculation, we're looking for how they answer that question and how informed they will answer that question.
And then after those meetings, instead of asking them to bid on the project, which honestly contractors around here will not do, they won't take the time to do a full bid. Then we narrow it down to one person, ask for a full bid, but we haven't signed a contract yet. So, if that comes in way off where we think it should be, we still have the opportunity to talk to other people.
Marilyn Moedinger (15:16):
Yeah, getting all that established and I'm really glad you guys brought up, because we're in different parts of the country. And we say that at the beginning of the podcast, not just for — I mean, it’s part of the perspective we're bringing and these things are very regional. But at the end of the day, we're all trying to get to that cost information or get to that, hey, what is this project? Because the next phase, we have to design it for real now (laughs).
So, we've got the basics now knocked into place, but there's still a lot more work that needs to be done in terms of design to kind of solidify all those things. And this is the meat of what we do, I mean, this phase.
So, in terms of how we go through the design process — I mean, some people may have heard words like design development or construction documents or things like that. That's from the architecture world, and sort of how it's spoken about on more commercial projects or sort of larger projects.
I mean, we were moving and I think Taylor said it kind of best, we're moving from big decisions and small decisions. So, during that process, we're working through in a series of meetings. We usually meet every two weeks with our clients. Most clients think that they want to meet more often than that, but the reality of having to make those decisions sets in, and the reality of everybody's schedule sets in.
So, every week is actually really, really often, and it doesn't give us enough time behind the scenes to actually do work in between. So, we'll meet every two weeks, and we will kind of work through whether it's working through a series of spaces. We always start off with the toughest ones, the ones that have the most stuff. So, kitchens and bathrooms have the most stuff in them, so we need to get that.
We work live; that's something unique that we do with our clients. So, we don't make static presentations where there are PDFs that we send. We actually do live zooms with our clients or sit there together in person but work on a computer screen or a big screen where we're actually flying through our model, we're looking at our live drawings. And that way when someone says, “Well, what if we made the bedroom five feet bigger?” We can just try it live and show why that does or doesn't work, we’ll work things together.
So, it's very collaborative. But the funnel starts to get narrower and narrower as you go further along in the process. When you're 10 meetings in, you don't want to be saying, “What if we made the bathroom a totally different shape and turned it and put it in another part of the house?” We want to not be there.
So, we're full service, so we do everything. So, we're ushering our clients through picking out absolutely everything. So, all the fixtures, we lay out all the HVAC, everything. We go with our clients to the showrooms, we don't send them on their own, we actually go with them.
We have this massive spreadsheet that we work together with all these tabs where we work together at filling everything in. That is really important. If a client picks this sink versus that sink and they're just on their own doing it and we don't know they changed it, or the sink actually doesn't fit in the vanity, like, disaster.
So, because we're full service, we do absolutely everything. So, our drawings at the end of our process will include everything up to and including the knob on the cabinet, the hinge, where the toilet paper holder goes, and what size it is. We're down in the weeds. The idea is if we create all of that and we take all the time to figure that out, then when we hand it over to the contractor, they don't have to ask a million questions.
So, when we're in the heat of battle of construction, the contractor isn't saying, “We need all the tile selections by next week.” We're like, “No problem, it's already been selected, it was selected four months ago.” It helps with lead time; it helps with stress during construction. And the inevitable surprises that come up in renovation are a lot easier to deal with because we've already solved all the knowns and we're just dealing with the unknowns.
It's a heavier lift and I'll just say it is more expensive. I'll just say that to have us to do all that work. But in the end, we believe that it's the way to get the best value from the types of projects we do, which are very intricate and complicated renovations in a very tight urban environment.
Taylor Davis (19:35):
One of the things I appreciate about what Marilyn just said is, the key word is time. We are oftentimes able to do things very quickly, but sometimes the benefit of having us sit down and chew on something for a while to figure out a design problem is really critical.
And we chew on them. I think all of us do. And we work things upside down, sideways, backwards, flip pages around, and get to a solution or a design that compliments what the homeowner is trying to achieve. It's not just about us; it's really about our clients.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:13):
Yeah. It's very little about us (laughs).
Taylor Davis (20:14):
Yeah, it doesn't really matter. And so, I'd add to that, we do the full-service stuff too, but we also now do interiors. So, we are full turnkey from foundations through curtain trims. So, we're also doing furniture plans during that design process so that if there are things with long lead times, if there's custom upholstery, we're making sure the rugs fit, all of those things are kind of happening simultaneously.
And so, for folks who want it, it's a real turnkey service. So, you can start with us and literally finish with us as we're putting the paintings on the walls. For those of us who are enthusiastic about making sure that the clients have all of the things that they want, where they want them, it's a really great opportunity to have kind of one point person be that guide that kind of helps through that process.
Sheri Scott (21:11):
Yeah, I would say our process is quite different. In my community, we are very builder-led, so I think in a lot of maybe bigger cities, it can be architect-led where people naturally tell their friends, “Go find your architect first.” In our area, it is traditionally: go find your builder first. And that's in custom homes, but not luxury homes.
So, in my business, we're kind of in between taking that huge step into luxury homes, which yes, they look for the architect first, which I love, of course, is what I've been working toward. But there are a lot of great projects that are builder-led. And I started my business in some turmoil, I had to work, and I had to make money, and it was 2008, and there was not a lot of money to be had in the architecture world.
So, I took what work I could get and that work was working with builders. Builders would bring their clients to me, and we developed a process that to this day still works really well. The builder is more in charge of the client; they're involved in every meeting. And then what we get to do is a lot of times the fun part, we design the building. And then when the building's done, we hand it over to the contractor, contractor and owner, go off, make their own decisions, make their own mistakes, and we are not involved anymore.
We get paid well for the work that we do, and sometimes, it's fun to get a project in and get it out in two months instead of two years. So, that is one part of our business that I like. And we'll talk to some of those people during our interviews.
They do screw it up sometimes and it makes me very sad because I do end up seeing it, getting invited over an opening party or something and I'm like, “Oh, that is not what we had in mind.” But they're happy and we keep saying it's their home, we're trying to get them to what they love.
The other side of our business is more traditional, like you guys', it's probably 70% of our business is full-service architecture. What we do differently though is we do a lot of the selections and work during construction, which I think maybe is not ideal, it's just how it works here.
We find that our clients are eager to break ground, and for us, new construction, it's literally breaking ground. And so, we have a lot of time during foundation and framing. We have months and months during foundation and framing. So, that's when we make a lot of those decisions.
And sometimes, it's useful because you can walk around during framing and feel the space. Instead of me telling them what it's going to feel like or looking at it on a 3D model, we can actually walk in the space and say, “Can you imagine this five-foot chandelier in this space and it's going to hang like this high?” And they get super excited or they're like, “No, that's terrible.” And now, at least we know.
The other thing, Marilyn, when you said you do live changes, you would have to kidnap me to make me do live changes (laughs) in front of a client.
[Laughter]
And I don't know if it's maybe because I have staff, a lot of us meet and sometimes in meetings, there are a lot of ideas thrown out that don't always work. And my fear is that a client's going to get super excited about something, we say, “Oh, what about this?” And they get super excited and then I'm the one that has to go and say, “Yeah, that didn't work, we can't do that for X, Y and Z.”
Marilyn Moedinger (25:27):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because there is definitely, I've learned the hard way what kinds of changes that are appropriate to make during a meeting and what changes are not appropriate to make.
Taylor Davis (25:38):
So, I have a question because it's come up in everybody's conversation. How many of us are building a 3D model in some way, shape or form during the design process that gets shown or used during construction documents or design, working with clients? Is everybody doing that?
Sheri Scott (25:59):
Yeah, we do that from the very beginning.
Marilyn Moedinger (26:01):
We do it from day one as well. I just will caveat, and I think we should talk about representation and AI and virtual flythroughs and stuff, because a lot of that stuff is really super relevant these days. We create partial models showing crucial spaces. So, we're not modeling the bedroom, it's just a room with windows in it. We're not modeling necessarily those spaces.
But I also think that something that can happen with owners is that because imagery is so easy to generate these days with a prompt and Midjourney or whatever, that then they think that it's that easy for us to do it as well.
And what's really important is to say that, that prompt in Midjourney or whatever you're using is super cool and interesting, but you look at that and you're like none of this is physically possible. Gravity apparently doesn't exist; code doesn't exist. So, those are also dangerous things. So, people think we can do it really fast, and they think that whatever it is, it’s doable.
And when we're making models (and I'm sure this is the same for you guys), we're actually thinking about, “Okay, well this is how wide the trim is, so I can't put the vanity there because then the trim is going to hit the vanity or the door's not going to open or whatever.” And that's not happening in those AI images at all.
Taylor Davis (27:21):
I mean, I think from our perspective, it's a really helpful tool, but it's not an end in and of itself. My goal is not to provide a 3D rendering of every surface that we've created in a project, that would be a waste of everybody's time.
And it takes a lot of time to generate those things. It's not a snap your fingers, push a button and the whole thing renders with the right sunlight, and you can see exactly how it's going to look. We're not there yet. We may be at some point, but we're just not there yet.
So, I think it's important for folks to realize that we want to give you the critical views and the critical pieces so that you get a sense of what is happening in your project, but it's not easy to just turn around and say, “Oh, can you look at this wall with the three outlets on it?” It takes a little more time than that.
Marilyn Moedinger (28:11):
Yeah. And I think as we kind of talk about the next and final phase of the process here, which is actually building it, we've kind of already touched on a lot of it, and I just want to point out — Sheri, you're mentioning a really different process where you're picking things out during construction, and Taylor and I are picking them out beforehand, sort of roughly.
Both of those are great. Both of those have pluses and minuses. And then they're also rooted in the personality of the owner and what works for them, their schedule, and also the region. So, Sheri, you brought up a couple times, in your area, X, Y, Z has to be done a certain way. And I would say with my practice in Lancaster, PA, and Boston, very different building cultures.
We're much more builder-driven in Lancaster. So, when you're talking about that stuff, I'm like yeah, I recognize that and I'm learning that, because my practice has been in Boston for a lot longer. And what's fun is that the builders in Lancaster are like, “I've never worked that way. That's cool (laughs).” Or “Oh, I'm not sure about that” or whatever. But there's interesting conversations coming of it.
So, I think that nothing here is necessarily wrong. It's just tailored and to the situation, to the owner, to the project, to the region, and that's why working with a local professional is so important so that you're getting all that local knowledge.
Sheri Scott (29:32):
So, moving on to construction then, I think it'd be interesting to talk about how you work with the client specifically during construction and communication, and how you work with the contractor and how all of that kind of meshes together.
Taylor Davis (29:47):
I just came in hot from a meeting, you want me to go (laughs)?
Marilyn Moedinger (29:50):
Yeah, top of mind for you. Go for it.
Taylor Davis (29:53):
I'm like screeching into the parking lot coming off … we're going to do a whole show on dictionary terms. Because I think people throw terms around and I mean I didn't know what half of this stuff was — but OAC meetings (owner, architect and contractor meetings), we have them pretty much every week during construction, sometimes not, but most of the time every week during construction.
And so, we are in communication with the owners, we're in communication with the contractors. And while we have these meetings once a week, we're probably talking to the contractors every day on the backside of that. Or the clients, we try and bundle it all into those meetings because it's more efficient, but it doesn't really happen.
And so, we are working through that during construction. Especially in renovations, you could open up a wall and find dead cats, which has happened —there's all sorts of stuff … you can find raccoons.
There's that opportunity to sort of solve problems when they show up on a site, which is inevitable, is really important for us to be able to be helpful for that. And to sort of soothe nerves. I mean, I tell clients a lot, “If you don't see me panicking, you don't need to panic. We're all good.”
And then for us too, that involves us approving pay applications. So, when the contractor submits an invoice to the client, we can be like, “Okay, hold on, wait a second, I would love to ask a question about the lighting switches. We expect dimmers, it looks like here there's no dimmers. We need to be making sure that that bid included those dimmers, can we have a conversation about that?”
So, we are sort of playing the heavy sometimes for the owner when we're having these conversations about invoices on the sort of backside of that, on a periodic basis. So, that helps us kind of keep an eye on where things are schedule-wise and dollar-wise, and also helps us kind of solve problems as they come up in the field.
So, that's nutshell of our construction. I don't know that there's any way to get — it's messy, but construction's messy.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:01):
It is messy, and I would say ours is very similar. And one thing that we do that I'm really serious about is meeting minutes for those weekly meetings. So, I have had multiple, maybe even I can count on two hands, the number of clients who have given us referrals or good references. And the first thing they said was our meeting minutes.
Taylor Davis (32:22):
Your meeting minutes are aspirational for me, Marilyn. Aspirational.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (32:27):
I mean, I would like to say good designer, good manager of the process, really good with clients, hoping my clients say that, but they apparently also say meeting minutes.
So, that is so fundamental to how we operate, and those meeting minutes … and you know where I learned how to do good construction project meeting minutes? When I was a contractor. I actually came up through the ranks on the contractor side before I was an architect.
So, worked in the field as a laborer, they soon figured out I had better uses (laughs). So, learned project management, estimating and all of that. And that's where I learned how to keep good meeting minutes for construction. So, if the contractor offers to keep the minutes, I say, “No, thanks, we'll do it.” Who so therefore controls the minutes, controls the narrative of the project. And so, anyway, that's an important add.
But during construction, in renovations you're opening the wall, you're finding raccoons, whatever. But a big part of what we do is not just the technical stuff, like oh my gosh, something we need to change something, whatever — the other thing we do is psychological.
So, we are there, as Taylor's saying, not to panic. But construction's really confusing and really overwhelming. And for our clients, they're seeing their home completely torn to pieces in front of their eyes and nothing … will this ever go back? What's happening here?
And so, that's a huge role that we play. And good contractors, by the way, if a contractor says, “We don't want the architect anywhere near construction,” red flag.
Sheri Scott (33:58):
Red flag. Absolutely. So many times.
Marilyn Moedinger (34:02):
Because good contractors want good architects around. It's a team, right Sheri? (Chuckles).
Sheri Scott (34:12):
Yes, I have had that so many times. And one time in particular, something happened on site. They needed a retaining wall where we didn't think they would need a retaining wall, things like that happen.
And so, the client comes to me, and he is like, “Oh, well yeah, Bob, the builder said that maybe we could reduce your CA fee to pay for the wall.”
Marilyn Moedinger (34:41):
No …!
Sheri Scott (34:43):
And I said we can negotiate that because I do all of my services on a sliding scale, and I try to serve people where they are and what they need from me. But I said, “You go home tonight, and you think about the fact that the very first thing that came up as a problem, the contractor's idea is let's get rid of the third party” which is just incredible. So, they ended up not getting rid of me.
But I think we do all the same things you guys do: weekly visits, meetings — some clients want us to do pay requests, some don't, so we kind of play that as it goes.
Marilyn Moedinger (35:21):
Yeah. Same with us.
Sheri Scott (35:22):
For those of you that don't know what CA is, it is Construction Administration, which clients sometimes get confused thinking we are doing the construction, but we're not. We are observing, essentially observing to make sure that your project is being built the way that we designed it and specified it.
Marilyn Moedinger (35:43):
But we're also not QA-QC. So, if we go into defining CA, yeah, it's really complex, but yeah, that should be said as well. We're not out there with a tape measure. We are providing services, the contractor's providing the product, which is the building.
Sheri Scott (35:58):
And more nuanced in the psychology side, like Marilyn said, is for homeowners to always know that the architect is your advocate. And if you get into a project where the architect ends up being a little too buddy-buddy with the contractor and is stepping outside to smoke with them and whatever, that's not appropriate.
The architect is paid by you, you have a contract with the architect, and the architect is your advocate. So, make sure that that's how that's going down.
Taylor Davis (36:37):
And I would say that that sort of circles back to the initial contractor selection process, having a team, and if possible, a team that's worked together before is good. It doesn't mean that the architect isn't the owner's advocate because that's true. But the ways to solve problems, it's a lot easier if there's a team that's worked together before and knows how to negotiate, knows how to have tough conversations.
And if there's a problem, we want to go to our clients with a solution. We don't want to go to them with a question that they have to answer. We want to come and say, “Okay, here's what this is.” And that requires us having conversations with the contractor as well. So, that team approach I think is really important. And that gets established at the very beginning of a project, really.
Marilyn Moedinger (37:25):
Absolutely. And that's why when we're thinking about red flags or people to work with or whatever, people who are collaborative and understanding that the role of the GC and the role of the architect are distinct and important.
And there's a lot of overlap, but speaking as someone who's done both, there's a lot of overlap, but they are distinct. And you can't just get rid of the architect, as Sheri was just telling that story. Or you can, but there will be consequences. The work that the architect was doing is either going to be left undone or done by someone who's not as qualified.
Taylor Davis (37:59):
Or done by the owner.
Marilyn Moedinger (38:00):
Yeah, exactly, which is not ideal. So, I think as we contemplate these sorts of different ways we do things, I think it'd be helpful for our listeners to talk about what is a homeowner to do next? Okay, Sheri does it this way, Taylor does it this way, Marilyn does it this way. What does my region do? How do I do this? What do I do? What comes next? How do I know what I need? I mean, these are the questions we answer all the time.
Sheri Scott (38:26):
We answer those questions in our first meeting that I talked about at the beginning of this. That first meeting, that's a meet and greet. Be sure that you are open about what you don't know. I have a lot of clients that are super producers, and they are high earners, and they are brilliant people, but they don't know anything about construction. And you don't need to know anything about construction, that's our role.
And to be open about that and just say, “I haven't done this before, I really would like your guidance in finding a contractor.” Or “I have a contractor; he's my brother-in-law.” Whatever the situation is, be open with us. But I think that your first good step is probably to meet with an architect or two to find out how they work and see what resonates with you. They may say some things that you don't even know to ask.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:27):
I think that's really good. And we also do those initial meetings. And what I tell owners is this is not a sales meeting (laughs), I am not trying to sell you my services. I'm going to tell you all about what I offer. But one of my main driving goals in that meeting, and also just sort of in my life and how I'm built, is I want to help people figure out the best way to achieve their project.
If in that meeting, we can discern like. “Is that us?” Well, many times, it's actually not. So, we'll spend some time talking about: here are three other ways you could execute this project, or you can move forward. It doesn't involve us, that's fine. I don't care. Here's some other names or here's some other … I'm not there to just sell them that they have to work with us or that they have to shoehorn their project into my process if it's not a good fit.
And at this point in my career, I can tell if it's going to be a good fit or not to say, “Hey, what you guys are describing is a great fit for how we work, and I would love to work with you on this project, and here's more about how we do that.”
But our goal, when I talk to clients — and I do consultations by the way all the time, and those consultations, it's not a lead funnel for me to get work. It's about me helping people strategize about the best way to get their questions answered. And I think that the three of us are pretty passionate about that That is why we're doing this podcast in large part because we're passionate about people finding what works for them, not necessarily just, you must work with us and do it our way.
Taylor Davis (40:58):
We love to think that we're all brilliant and can do everything all the time, but we're probably all old enough to know that we can't do everything.
And so, I think it's important to note that not every architect is going to be the right fit. And it's okay to talk to several. It's okay to find that — we feel that way, you should feel that way too as a homeowner. It's okay that it's not the right fit. I take no offense. And it's better to sort that out at the outset.
And sometimes it's a question of things like timing. Do you need something really quickly and the firm can't get to it; they've got a backlog? Is it something that requires a special expertise that I don't have? We wouldn't be the right fit for that.
So, those early conversations are so important. But it's also, I think as an owner, important to come in and really kind of we do with that RFQ, is it important for the contractor to feed the dog during the process?
What are the most important things to you about this project? Is it a result? Is it what you want to end up with it? Is it a timeframe? Is it a budget? Is it a particular look or a style or something? But figure out kind of what your priorities are, and that will help guide that conversation with those architects so that both of you can go through a kind of discernment process to figure out if it's in alignment.
Marilyn Moedinger (42:18):
Through this whole session here, we've talked about a lot of different things, different from each other. It doesn't mean it's wrong. So, that one is right and one is wrong, but one might be right or wrong for the context.
So, the process that works really well in super intense renovations in downtown Boston doesn't necessarily work the same way for projects in the Cincinnati area for Sheri. So, that doesn't mean either one of us is wrong. So, it's all about finding that right fit, different is okay. That's why there's a variety of people offering services.
Taylor Davis (42:56):
And I guess the other thing I would suggest that folks do is think about what you need. We are going to advocate for folks using architects. And I think that's an important distinction.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:10):
That’s our bias.
Taylor Davis (43:11):
That's our bias. We are going to go into that with that bias. We are architects, we advocate for people using architects. There may be a fit where it's not the right thing for an architect, and that's okay too. But don't be afraid to call us and ask us that. I refer people to other folks all the time, whether it's a contractor or a drafts person that might be a better fit for that particular project.
And so, we believe that architects are great fits for most projects, but sometimes they aren't. So, that's okay too.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:40):
That's okay too.
Taylor Davis (43:42):
Thanks for joining us on Home: The Second Story. If you enjoyed today's conversation, I actually enjoyed it a lot, to be perfectly honest. But anyway, for more inspiring homeowner stories and tips, we will see you next time.
[Music Playing]
Voiceover (43:53):
Thanks for listening to Home: The Second Story Podcast. Feel free to share this episode with a friend. Contact information for all three of our architects are in our show notes.
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