In this episode of Home: The Second Story, Sheri Scott and Marilyn Moedinger talk with Jenn, a homeowner in Farmersville, Ohio, who built a custom home on 10 acres near Dayton. Jenn’s project moved quickly. The build took about eight months, and the whole process from plans to move-in was about 10 months.
Jenn had a unique perspective because she works for Sheri at Springhouse Architects. She did not go through the full architecture process in the usual way. Looking back, she says she would have paid for the full experience. She saw firsthand how much architects help clients think through details, communicate with builders, and avoid problems before they happen.
One of Jenn’s biggest lessons was that she should have written down the specific things she wanted before design began. She had ideas in her head, but the speed of the project and the stress of decisions made some of them easy to forget. The biggest example was her primary suite. She wanted the bathroom, closet, and laundry to work together in a more efficient layout. She remembered this early enough to change it, but she did not speak up because she felt guilty asking for more help from people who were giving her discounts or favors.
This became a major theme of the conversation. Working with friends or professional contacts can be helpful, but it can also make the relationship harder to manage. Jenn says she would have defined the relationship earlier. When discussing the project, she would want the roles to be client and architect or client and builder. Then they could return to being friends outside of that process.
Jenn also talks about making selections herself, including tile, cabinets, lighting, and custom wood countertops made from trees cut down on their property. The countertops became one of her favorite parts of the house, though there was a stressful moment when the island was installed without the seating overhang she had planned. The woodworker was able to fix it, but Sheri points out that full architectural services could have caught that issue through shop drawings before installation.
The episode also covers the end of the build. Jenn’s project stayed close to budget except for additions they chose, but the schedule became stressful. She and her family were renting, had to move belongings around, and eventually needed the builder to finish quickly so they would not be without a place to live. Sheri and Marilyn use that story to stress how important it is to ask builders how their projects finish, not just how they start.
(00:00) Intro
(01:20) Working With an Architect You Know
(04:25) What Jenn Would Do Differently
(06:56) The Primary Suite Regret
(10:27) How Discounts and Friendships Changed the Process
(13:07) Defining the Client Relationship Early
(15:51) Making Selections Without Full Services
(20:34) The Island Overhang Mistake
(23:16) How Full Services Could Have Helped
(24:18) The Value of a Third Party Advocate
(27:20) Budget, Schedule, and the End of the Build
(32:19) Why Project Closeout Matters
(34:46) Jenn’s Favorite Part of the House
(36:30) Sheri and Marilyn’s Recap
Marilyn Moedinger (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to Home: The Second Story. We are two architects sharing real conversations with homeowners who've taken on custom home or renovation projects. I am Marilyn Moedinger of Runcible Studios, located in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and Boston, Massachusetts.
Sheri Scott (00:14):
And I am Sheri Scott with Springhouse Architects in Cincinnati, Ohio. And today, we are joined by Jenn in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Jen.
Jenn (00:22):
Hello.
Sheri Scott (00:23):
So, we're going to start jumping with just some quick five questions to get the lay of the land. Where is your project located?
Jenn (00:31):
We're in Ohio, just outside of Dayton, in a little town called Farmersville.
Sheri Scott (00:36):
On land, right?
Jenn (00:38):
We have 10 acres-
Sheri Scott (00:39):
Not in the neighborhood.
Jenn (00:40):
Yep.
Sheri Scott (00:41):
What was your project? New build, renovation?
Jenn (00:44):
It was a new build.
Sheri Scott (00:45):
Okay. And when did you start your project, and then when did you move in? How long did it take?
Jenn (00:53):
The build process was about eight months, almost to the day. The design process was really fast (laughs) because I didn't really do a typical design process. So, I mean, from the time we started with the house plans to moving in was, I don't know, maybe 10 months. It was fast.
Sheri Scott (01:20):
Good. So, I know the answer to this, but there are a lot of different ways you can work with an architect. What was that process for you?
Jenn (01:31):
For me, I worked for an architect (laughs).
Sheri Scott (01:39):
For me, Jen worked for me (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (01:40):
Spoiler. Spoiler.
[Laughter]
Jenn (01:43):
Yeah. Right, and didn’t to spoil that one. But since you did yeah, I worked for Sheri and basically, I was like, "Hey, Sheri (laughs) I don't think I can afford like the whole process because I helped draft those proposals, so I know what they were like." And so, obviously, I had worked for Sheri already for a number of years, and she was like, "Don't worry, Jen. We all want to help you through this."
So, that's what they did. So, my experience working with an architect is much different than what I even witnessed are clients at Springhouse, their process. I would say to anybody listening that even if the architect is your friend or you work for them or whatever it is, I would say do your best to pay their fees for the whole experience.
I think comparing my experience to the experiences that I watched clients walk through, it looked different. And I think I would've had more fun through the process and some things … I recognize that you guys as architects know a whole lot more than I as the one wanting to do the project about even how to get from point A to point B when I have an idea.
Like, you guys could say, "Hey, that's a great thought. I know you saw a pretty picture on Pinterest, but how we arrive at your goal, we should do it differently." And I think that would be one thing that I would say, just trust the architect and go through their whole process. And yes, it's going to cost some money, but it'll be worth it (laughs).
Sheri Scott (03:49):
Interesting. Great. So, I think the interview's over.
Marilyn Moedinger (03:52):
I know. Exactly. Like, okay that's a wrap everybody. Good job.
[Laughter]
Well, we like to kind of dive in with our big question, which you've started to already answer, which is perfect, which is knowing what you know now and having gone through the process, what would you do differently? What would you do the same? What would you recommend to someone with that wisdom? So, you mentioned the architect's process and fees and all that. So, anything you want to add to that or other aspects you feel like?
Jenn (04:25):
There's definitely more that I would have changed, like doing it over again. That was the first time that I had ever built a house, and of course, I worked for a custom architect, so my first house that I built is going to be custom (chuckles). And part of that reason was because I was very budget conscious, and so I kind of had to take something and like cookie cutter it to fit my needs. And everything is so darn expensive now.
So, if I could do it over again, I would have listened to the intuition that I had from working in an architect's office for several years prior to that. And I would have taken the things in my head that I wanted and actually, put them on paper so that when the time came to design it, I wouldn't have forgotten.
There were elements that I was like, "How did I forget this?" Just the way that we did things, I was just kind of like I really didn't want that. I wanted it to be a different way.
Sheri Scott (05:41):
Is there something specific you can remember? I mean, I know in the office, so we … it's kind of like a four-square farmhouse, would you say, Jen?
Jenn (05:52):
Yeah.
Sheri Scott (05:53):
Great, great house. I mean, I think you love living in it and the space and everything else. But we did what we affectionately call a builder set or a permit set. So, basically, it's just planning the space, designing the exterior, and getting the structure in there to get a permit, and then client and builder go off and do their thing.
And of course, you were still in the office every day, so I think you didn't run things by me as much, but other people in the office, which you probably just felt like you didn't want to bother me, which would not have been a bother. But I tend to be a little busy and running with my hair on fire, so (laughs) that's not always easy to pin me down.
So, we didn't get into details or planning the kitchen, and we didn't do any finishes with you, so yeah, take us through a little bit of that.
Jenn (06:56):
So, the biggest thing that I kicked myself for because this would've been an easy change, like I should have brought this up. But again, I was on a certain moment and so because I'm on that road, I forgot about these other side roads that I actually cared about. And that was like the master suite, really. I love efficiency and functionality, and for me, that means my closet needs to be right off of my bathroom, or somehow incorporated in my bathroom.
I did remember that I wanted my own laundry in my space, so I didn't have to go somewhere else or share it with the rest of the family. I remembered that part, but I wish that I would've done the bedroom in a connected, like master bathroom, laundry closet, like all of that together.
And instead, what we did was typical bedroom, bathroom on this side of the bedroom and closet on the other side of the bedroom. And at one point, I remembered like, oh, yeah, I kind of wanted it different.
Sheri Scott (08:20):
Was that after it was framed or?
Jenn (08:22):
No, no, no. It would've been in plenty of time to change things, however, number one, you're right. I was not wanting to bother anybody because I wasn't paying for it. So, that subconscious almost, I don't know if it's actually guilt, but just like that feeling bad-
Sheri Scott (08:44):
Yeah, didn’t want to ask for another favor kind of thing.
Jenn (08:46):
Right. Like they're all doing this just because they like me (laughs) and they have to work with me every day. And so, I didn't want to put much burden on anybody, so I tried to take as much of those kinds of decisions on my own.
And the builder, had I pushed for that change at the time — now, the ground hadn't even been broken, but he had already gotten things priced, so he would've been extremely angry at me. And I don't like people mad at me, so I decided that's not an important thing to ruffle feathers about, and so I just let it go because it would've been-
Sheri Scott (09:29):
That early on, yeah.
Jenn (09:31):
It would've been a whole … I don't know. I think it would've been a pretty significant design change of the second floor which I understand cascades down.
Sheri Scott (09:46):
If you hadn't broken ground, it really is still just on paper.
Jenn (09:52):
When it came down to it, it was just like I knew the builder was also kind of discounting his markup on it because of being kind of professional colleagues from working for you. And so, that whole kind of concept of people doing extra for me for less than what they would normally receive was always in the back of my mind. So, I just didn't want to inconvenience anybody.
Marilyn Moedinger (10:27):
Do you feel like if you would have not had those discounts or favors or whatever, that you would've felt more comfortable saying, "Hey, we haven't broken ground, I really want to move my closet and my bathroom around." Do you think that would've changed for you?
Jenn (10:43):
I think so. I think there's two layers to that. I think there's working with people who are your colleagues/work friends, there's that layer, and then there's the discounts kind of layer to it. So, I think had at least the discounted stuff not been present because everybody working … all of us working together, I mean, we are professionals and do hold a lot of professional like emotional intelligence.
So, everybody at Springhouse would've been like, "Oh yeah, that makes a lot more sense. Let's do that." It would've been fine to change it on paper but yeah, it was just that subconscious, like I'm annoying people (laughs).
Sheri Scott (11:38):
Well, that's interesting because you did have connections and it wasn't a straightforward financial transaction where they were just working for you or we were just working for you. And it just brings up, people say, don't work with family or don't lend family money. Like it just changes. It really does change your mindset, even though everyone's like, "Oh, no, no, we'll do anything."
It changes your mindset in the background to the point where we can't help you because you're not … like we didn't even know that that was all in your head. And I'm not saying you were wrong feeling all of that, it's just money and friendships change everything. It complicates it.
Marilyn Moedinger (12:29):
In light of that, what advice maybe would you give … that tradeoff. Like there was a tradeoff there of working with people that you know which not only there might be a financial tradeoff, there's also getting to work with people that you know and trust, so that is really important.
And there was also this sort of tradeoff of maybe since they're kind of doing me some favors, I can't quite ask for changes or whatever. How might you guide someone who's thinking about entering into a situation like that or trying to make things work like that? What might you say to them?
Jenn (13:07):
I think it's worth it to work with people that you know and trust for sure. I think early communication can head off a lot of anything, discomfort, disagreements, whatever. So, I think if I had to do it over again, I would have just sucked it up. And I think I would've just paid everybody what they normally get. I mean (laughs), like-
Marilyn Moedinger (13:41):
That’s really interesting.
Jenn (13:42):
Why shouldn't I? They're doing the same amount of work for me, and okay, if they want to give me a little discount, but not as much as I had. So, I think that because that would've taken some of the — I don't know how else to put it other than guilt off of my subconscious.
And then in that early on communication, I would just make sure that the relationship is very defined moving forward through this process. And when we talk about the project, we are client architect or client builder, whatever it is. We are not friends in that process.
And then after we're done talking about it, then we can go back to being friends kind of thing. And I also recognize that not everybody can kind of compartmentalize that way, but that would've worked for me.
Sheri Scott (14:40):
Yeah, I think that would've worked for you. And I don't know about for Springhouse or our office, but with the builder you used for sure, like laying that groundwork in the beginning and even if you said, "Hey, I'd rather pay you full price because I want our relationship to be builder and client," I think he still would've given you the discount but you would've laid the groundwork there that this was your expectation instead of, "Hey, I'm going to do this for you as a friend," which is kind of how I felt that transaction was.
Even when I overheard things that were going on, it felt like his attitude was more of, I'm doing this for you as a friend and kind of you were covering his costs or whatever. But yeah, there were quite a few times when that didn't feel good, especially when a couple things went sideways and you were like, "Should I ask him to redo this?" Like, "Yeah (laughs)."
Marilyn Moedinger (15:51):
Let's talk about all of the selections. So, since you had only a builder set from Sheri and Springhouse, how did you go about planning the kitchen, choosing your tile, choosing all your fixtures? How did that process work for you?
Jenn (16:10):
Basically, that was all me. And I'm not (that) creative (laughs), so-
Sheri Scott (16:18):
You're very creative.
Marilyn Moedinger (16:19):
Everyone's creative, in my opinion. Everyone just has different types of creativity.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (16:23):
Even though you’re an accountant.
Jenn (16:25):
Yes. It's funny because I have like that very numbers, like factual, very logical brain, but I also have a very artistic side to me. So, I don't know if that always marries so good, but I see art in spreadsheets even, so it's fun.
Marilyn Moedinger (16:43):
Me too.
Jenn (16:46):
I'm not like a unicorn, that's good to know (laughs). So, I had a good idea, like a good feel for my color palette and what I liked. I mean, that is something that I think Pinterest is good for, is just to kind of see what colors and materials, what textures look good together. So, that was my guide, (laughs) sort of.
And when I would pull things together, I did like bring Kayla over and say, "Hey, just tell me that I'm not colorblind or something. Just make sure that you agree. If you agree that this looks good, then I'm happy." So, that's really how it went for pretty much the entire house, the selection process of the entire house.
Sheri Scott (17:40):
So, did the builder tell you where to go or make appointments for you, or how did the nuts and bolts of that happen, and how did that information get communicated back to the builder?
Jenn (17:55s):
That depended on what part of it, it was. So, for some of it, most of it, he had his own subcontractors. Most of it, I didn't really have to work with them.
Sheri Scott (18:06):
So, how did you pick out tile? Did you just go to the tile shop or …?
Jenn (18:12):
Tile was very different. I found the tile that I absolutely fell in love with on Pinterest, took me to the store that sold it. So, when it came to picking out tile for the bathroom shower because that was the only other place we were going to have tile, that was the flooring company. And that experience was very fun. I loved working with the builder's flooring subcontractor.
So, we picked out our flooring and our tile with him, and I just told him, "Look, I fell in love with this tile and I need you to find it for me." So, he just did that and I had to go pick it up. I think actually that was just a logistical thing and I was like, yeah, no, I'm down to do whatever I need to do to get this tile-
Sheri Scott (19:04):
That tile in particular.
Jenn (19:06):
So, if you can't get it, I will go get it. But that piece of the process was actually quite fun.
Sheri Scott (19:13):
And cabinets then, how did you do that?
Jenn (19:15):
Yeah, I met with his supplier for cabinets as well and they did a design, like a mock-up 3D thing for me, design for me to see how it's going to look in the space. The countertops were actually all on me because I took that upon myself because the property that we bought, we had cut down some trees and I looked at one log and I said, that can be countertops.
And so, that's exactly what we did with it. And we had the time to have it slabbed out and kiln dried and the whole process. So, I also, through Springhouse, knew of a woodworker that was very local in town. And I just called him up like, "Hey, can you do this (laughs)?" And he's like, "Yeah, let's do it." So, that was fun.
Sheri Scott (20:15):
That's one of those special pieces I know that you had planned on throughout and were really anxious to see it. And there was a little bit of a hiccup with that. You tell the story (laughs). I want to hear what you say about it because I’m still mad.
Jenn (20:34):
You know what, I think he handled it beautifully, so I'm not mad about it at all.
Sheri Scott (20:37):
Good.
Jenn (20:38):
So, we waited for months and months to see these countertops because the whole process just took that long. So, he installed them, and I go into the house, I'm all excited to see it on the countertop or on the cabinets. And we had a big island in the middle of the kitchen that was kind of like the centerpiece.
And I was very specific. I want to host gatherings at my house so I need more than just our 10-seater table. And so, the countertop on the island was going to be that extra seating. So, I had like an L-shape of an overhang past the cabinets designed in there. Well, I walked in the door and sure enough, that top was built for just the dimensions of the cabinets.
Marilyn Moedinger (21:37):
So, no big overhang to sit at.
Jenn (21:40):
Right.
Marilyn Moedinger (21:40):
Oh, no.
Jenn (21:41):
I left the house crying (laughs).
Sheri Scott (21:43):
I'm sure. Oh my gosh.
Jenn (21:46):
And I texted the builder, I emailed the woodworker, I was like, "I'm not mad at you, but I'm just heartbroken. Can you fix it?" And he was able to fix it. He had just enough wood of my wood left to make it work. So, I did get my overhangs.
The island was already so large that I already had to accept that there was seams in it. I was fine with there being extra seams in order to get my overhang. But I don't know, nobody notices, nobody cares that there's those seams, and I still think it looks great.
Sheri Scott (22:33):
I'm sure. And you still have the story that it's your original wood from the land. So, it's special. It is special.
Marilyn Moedinger (22:39):
Yes. Well, and ultimately, many times it's not the fact that problems didn't happen on projects because they always will. It's how they get solved. It's how the team comes together to say so if he did not have that extra wood, hopefully, he would've said, "Well, what if we do this creative solution or let's do this, or let's do that."
And I think that is the key. People sometimes can expect that everything goes perfectly, but that's not actually going to happen. So, how does the team recover from that, and how do you still get to tell the story at the end of like see, this seemed, do you know why this is here?
Sheri Scott (23:16):
I will say also that's one of those pieces where if we were doing full services, that that special order piece would've come through us as a-
Marilyn Moedinger (23:29):
Shop drawings.
Sheri Scott (23:30):
A shop drawing. And we would've checked it, and we would've known, and it would've been on the drawings that we have this overhang. It wouldn't have been just verbal communication that kind of gets lost and we would've checked it and sent it back with revisions. So, I think that's one of those pieces where during construction, we could have helped.
I think also, Jenn, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but just being a third party between or among you and your builder for communication purposes, to maybe have some of those harder conversations or at least to host them to be there as an intermediary and just say, "No, that's not what was on the plans or that's not what she wanted." I think that could have made some difference.
Jenn (24:18):
That right there would've been invaluable to me, just to have somebody be a third party and have my interests as their focus. Because that third party is not emotionally tied into the project like you are as the homeowner and wanting your vision to come alive, and then those little hiccups, then you're got that mental and emotional battle. Especially the kind of person that I am, I was like, "Do I make them mad? Do I upset them or do I get what I want?" You know what I mean (laughs)?
Sheri Scott (24:53):
And it's not just you Jenn, because I'm in the middle of my own big project totally, not a home, and because I'm the architect and the owner, I don't have that third party. And even though I know all of these things, and I have these hard conversations all the time — as the person, as the owner, it's just so different. It's very hard.
Marilyn Moedinger (25:20):
I think there's a way to, because I have my own projects, the floor finishers are downstairs right now. You may even be hearing them through this.
So, sometimes I wish I could find out from a subcontractor or a contractor, whatever, are you going to be the kind of person who weaponizes problems or emotional moments where you're like, "Well …" because sometimes that is the dynamic and sometimes they can be combative, and that they use that as a way to intimidate you into keeping something you don't want or whatever. And that way of working is really, really uncool (laughs).
Sheri Scott (26:05):
But once you're in it, you don't know there's-
Marilyn Moedinger (26:08):
It's hard to know. It's really hard to know. So, working with people whether it's the architect or the contractor or the subcontractors who are interested in solving the problem, not interested in just forcing you into things is really key. And that is hard to know. And it is a balancing act. You know don't want to destroy the relationship. They’re still in your house working, so it is hard to know.
Jenn (26:33):
Quick side note on that. I mean, I will say that on the opposite side of that spectrum, the builder did step in and not allow me to accept subpar work on the same note. Like our shower, our master shower, the tile got messed up in there and I'm like, "It's fine." Once we start using it, we're not even going to look at that. And the builder was like, "No, absolutely not." He's like, "I'm mad at you for accepting that (laughs)."
Marilyn Moedinger (27:07):
That's good. That's what it means to have an advocate and your contractor, and your architect and these people should be your advocate for sure.
Jenn (27:16):
So, I had both sides of that spectrum.
Sheri Scott (27:20):
Sure. And I think that makes sense in a new build, it's such a big project, even if it's a smaller house, you have all the same pieces. All the same decisions, just less of them and it moves faster in a smaller project. You had said an eight-month build, which I know took longer than you wanted it to take, but that's fast and that's a lot of decisions to make in that period of time.
So, how did the project end up? And without numbers, was it in budget on time? How was the end of the project?
Jenn (27:58):
The end of the project was in budget as far as … it went over budget, but it was mostly because we wanted to add things.
Sheri Scott (28:11):
Okay. So, you knew.
Jenn (28:13):
Yeah, right. So, I mean, there was one piece of it that I didn't like not knowing what the final add was going to be. But the builder understood that I really wanted this, and he was trying to make it happen for me for as little as of an add as possible.
So, I trust that he did that, that he mitigated that cost for me, but it was a significant ad that I was like, oh, I wish I would've known about what it would've been.
Sheri Scott (28:45):
Yeah. It was a wall finish, so it was something that didn't have to be done to get into the home, but you really wanted it. And that was part of your plan and the image and everything. And he kind of did it without giving you a price first. That's the stressful part.
Jenn (29:04):
Oh, that was the stressful part.
Sheri Scott (29:05):
And so, I remember you were kind of like they're already doing it and I don't know how much it's going to be. And we talked about it and we're like, "He's fair. We know he's honest," this builder that you were using. So, yeah, we kind of went with it.
But that's one of those things where at the end when things are trying to finish up and you're on a schedule and you're behind schedule already, like you don't want to tell them to stop to get pricing. And that's another one of those kinds of tricky situations when it's so emotional with your own project.
Jenn (29:40):
It was tricky for all of those reasons. And going back to the awkwardness with the relationship, because it was a little intertwined there, that whole wall finish add was something that we had actually planned on doing ourselves.
And once finding out that we want to do this, he was like, "But I have a great carpenter who's already there, and he will do excellent work and he'll do a much better job than what you can do as a homeowner (laughs)."
Which I do agree. I mean, I agree. When you have a higher professional to do a professional job, they're going to give you a professional result when you do it as a homeowner, it's not going to be so much. So, that whole wall add thing, I felt kind of pushed into it. So, then the expense at the end, I was like, "Hey, man, this really sucks now."
So, on this side of it, I love it. I would've just planned it into the beginning maybe, but as far as the schedule, that did push things out a little bit more. Our schedule did get crunched at the end. So, the end of the project was not a fun experience, not for us or the builder. We were renting a house, that lease was up, we had to move our stuff into a whole different house for a month.
And then, so I kind of was like, "Okay, Mr. Builder, you have one more month, tell me you're going to be done with these little …" it seemed like little things that needed to get done and would never give me a confident yes, we're going to be done.
It was always like, "Well, we'll see." So, we're holding our breath the whole time and then when the end came and I was like, "Listen, we are going to be homeless in one week, you've got to get us into this house."
Sheri Scott (31:41):
You got to do it. You got to do it.
Jenn (31:42):
So, then the last few days, he really pulled out all the stops and put his whole crew there. But then communicated to me later that that was really stressful on his crew and his company, and that's not how he wants to finish a house and I was just like-
Sheri Scott (31:59):
No, I wanted to finish two months earlier.
Jenn (32:04):
I don't know what you want me to do. I mean, it can't go on forever for an indefinite amount of time when you have a homeowner that's renting and I mean, our stuff was here, there and everywhere, (laughs). It's crazy.
Sheri Scott (32:19):
I know. People will say, "Well, you can't not get it done because I'm a homeowner and I'm renting." But then it's like you can't not get it done because I'm a business and I've got business to do, or I've sold my house and I need somewhere else to go. Like there's always a reason to finish.
And that's one of our questions we tell people to ask builders or to ask the people that are references for them. People could say, "Oh yeah, it was good, it was fine, it was in budget, whatever." How did the project finish?
Marilyn Moedinger (32:54):
It's really crucial too, because there's also the sense that you as a builder, I remember this happening, that when I was training as a builder and learning how to do that in a previous life, I remember my boss saying, "You can't make up for things in the last month of the project that you should have been doing six months before."
Like you have to be planning for the closeout of the project six months before it happens. Like basically at the beginning, potentially.
Jenn (33:24):
That's good advice.
Marilyn Moedinger (33:24):
Because if you don't have your guys lined up for that last crazy few weeks of a project where you've got to have everybody in there like clockwork coming, going, coming, going, everyone inspections, this, this, this, finishing out whatever. If you don't have that lined up, then you are going to take two months to do what should have taken three weeks. And that planning has to happen months in advance. And you have to be really on top of it.
And there are things that happen — during COVID there was all this stuff with hooking up electrical, and that took forever. And there's extenuating circumstances and that's fine. But what I don't like to hear is when builders delay people moving in because they didn't plan or they didn't … and I'm not saying this is what this guy did, but it happens all the time.
And they're like, "Well, what do you want me to do? I can't get my guys here because they're on this other job." I'm like, "Well, you should have planned for that (laughs). It's literally your job." So, when I say that with deep compassion for how hard it is to be a builder and also, you got to plan ahead. So, I think that's a great question, Sheri. How did your project finish? That is a great one to ask potential references when you're learning about builders.
Sheri Scott (34:35):
Yeah. Well, Jenn, it sounds like you're in your house now, right? You've been there over a year.
Jenn (34:46):
Yeah. Almost a year and a half almost.
Sheri Scott (34:48):
So, we like to ask what is one thing that you dearly love about your house? Like you come in and you're just like, "I'm so glad I did this because this is this thing."
Jenn (35:03):
Yeah. You probably know this (laughs) the answer to this, it's definitely my countertops and my back splash tile. That was a good-
Sheri Scott (35:13):
And you get to see that and use that every day, I love that.
Jenn (35:15):
Yeah. We did pendant lights that come down. I think they're called pendants. Maybe they're not. Anyway, the ones that hang above you, like your island. Those were like a find that I was like, "I love these lights, but do they actually work? Does it work? Does it pull everything together the way I think it's going to?" And that was one of those things that Kayla was like, "Yes, do that." And I was still not confident-
Sheri Scott (35:44):
I can hear her saying that.
Jenn (35:46):
I was still not super confident about it until I saw it all come together. Because you conceptualize in your head, but those really do add to that whole just love for that sight of my kitchen when I walk in the door every day like with the countertops, the tile and that pendant and the … yes, my kitchen is my favorite for sure.
Sheri Scott (36:09):
Good. I love that. Good. Well, thank you so much for being with us and for sharing your story. I actually hadn't heard all of those stories, so (laughs)-
Marilyn Moedinger (36:20):
Oh, we got some fresh material today.
Jenn (36:22):
Just got some tea.
Marilyn Moedinger (36:25):
Excellent. Excellent.
Sheri Scott (36:26):
Thanks for being with us, Jenn.
Jenn (36:28):
No problem.
Marilyn Moedinger (36:30):
So, I feel like we should start our little recap by saying we did not script that opening that-
Sheri Scott (36:38):
I know. And I swear I didn't like call her for a meeting (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (36:43):
Yeah. She came right out of the gate and said, "You should pay your architect and you should have an architect for full services. And even if they give you a discount, you should pay their full …" We did not script that.
So, I feel like we should have like a flashing (sign). I think it's a testament to someone who's been through the process and realizes just how much work that an architect does. And what's interesting is she was working with you in your office, so not in a design capacity.
Sheri Scott (37:09):
Correct. She's our bookkeeper, yeah.
Marilyn Moedinger (37:11):
The bookkeeper had seen all of the things coming and going and was still like, "Well, maybe I can do this without."
Sheri Scott (37:17):
I know. I know.
Marilyn Moedinger (37:19):
And then at the end was like, "No, I should have done that …"
Sheri Scott (37:21):
I know. And the fact that she didn't ask us halfway through I wish she would have. But that was very interesting because we're a full-service architecture firm, and so she knows all the things that we do, but it's just so easy. And we've been talking about this in the last few podcasts, like people wanting to GC their own projects and things like that.
It's just so tempting to save that chunk of money. And it is a chunk of money, it's real money. And the thing is, when you pay the money and everything goes smoothly, then you might have second thoughts, "Well, maybe I didn't need to pay all of that," but it's because it went smoothly because we were there, and it's-
Marilyn Moedinger (38:11):
Because you were doing it, yeah (laughs).
Sheri Scott (38:12):
It’s such a mind cycle.
Marilyn Moedinger (38:15):
I mean, and I've been at this a long time. I do GC a lot of my own projects, not for clients, but my own projects for myself for properties I own. And every time I'm like I know this is a whole separate job. Like this is a whole … and I'm doing the selections and I'm doing all this stuff. It is a ton of work. And I think sometimes also if people don't go the full-service route with an architect, they actually don't know what they're missing in terms of what could have been possible, you know what savings.
I was just having a conversation with someone recently who said, "Well, I see the value of an architect, but my wife does not. So, we are currently trying to figure out how to navigate that." We can do a snack episode on that and dive into that a little bit more.
But I just wish people, and I guess that's the point of this podcast, is so that people hear that message before they start their project. We hear it all the time after and we're like, "Ah …" I wish people would hear it before so that they come to us and avoid those problems from day one.
Sheri Scott (39:22):
I agree. One of her statements that I noticed was that she forgot about the side roads that she really cared about.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:33):
I wrote that down.
Sheri Scott (39:34):
A lot of times, it's those small details when you're dreaming about your project, it's those small details when you're like, "Oh, I wish I had a house where blah, blah, blah." But then even if they do hire us and meet with us and we show them a plan, and they're like, "Oh yeah, that works." And you do forget those. I liked how she named them “side roads.”
It's not critical. She can live in the primary bedroom that she has in it. She can make it work. But she had that in mind. Later it became an issue about her speaking up or not and feeling guilty about that. But even in the very beginning, if you can keep a notebook or keep those photos and keep those little details, like have one list you can write those small details in that you can share with us, and then we will know them because it's hard to communicate and remember every single one when you have a couple hour meeting.
Marilyn Moedinger (40:38):
Absolutely. And that was when I did my own house, which was a renovation. So, my hands were tied a little bit more. It wasn't a full custom. I mean, it was a fully custom renovation, but I was still hemmed in because it was renovation.
And that was the thing I was most worried about because I was architecting and doing everything up my house while running the business, and that's what I was so worried about, was what was I going to miss? What was I going to … that I had been dreaming about, because this house I was going to renovate, I knew I was going to renovate it for decades. I knew that someday I would renovate it.
So, I had a long list in my head, but I was still worried even as a professional who does this day in and day out, that I would forget certain things. And I have three regrets in the house, and they're pretty minor and that's because I kept a list (laughs). I did. When I knew the project was really real, I started just writing it down just like chicken scratch, like quick-
Sheri Scott (41:33):
Just as it comes.
Marilyn Moedinger (41:36):
As it comes. And some of the things I couldn't do because it didn't work, whether because it's a renovation or because of the budget or whatever else, but it was all out on paper. And I think that's when we're working with people and working with clients, that's the stuff I want to know.
It doesn't matter if it all doesn't line up, it doesn't matter if you can't see how it's going to work, just bring us that big notebook or pile or Google doc or whatever you want, and you can't get that from just looking at other images, AI can't spit that out for you, that is in your head of what you love, of what is important in the way that you live. And so, yeah, I mean, I think that kind of thing is really, really crucial, and I'm glad that she gave that as a warning.
Sheri Scott (42:26):
Yeah, I agree. And then of course, down the road when she did remember it and then didn't speak up, I think we covered that (laughs) with her, but that's becoming a recurring theme here. Speak up. Like the worst they can do is tell you no, well, I guess and get kind of mad at you, but at some point, it's more important that you speak up and that you at least are heard.
Marilyn Moedinger (42:50):
Well, and even good builders, good architects might get annoyed. Even the good ones might get annoyed and be like, "Oh my gosh, I already had this figured out. We were going to do it this way," but the good ones will say, "We are here to do what you want. So, yes, I can totally move the bathroom and the closet around, we might need to add some dollars or add some time or whatever and here's what that …" So, that's what they should respond with.
And it is a recurring theme and it's worth underlining that we keep hearing from people — speak up, speak up. Don't be afraid to speak up about what it is that you want. And that comes back to another point that she made about the third party. So, having that the architect is there as an unemotional third party to help you navigate those things.
Because here's the thing, as a homeowner, as she was describing, you're trying to run your life out of a rental house. Your stuff is in boxes, you're trying to figure out, do I need to find another place for another month? Am I moving out? You have got a laundry list of things that you're thinking about that the architect is not on their plate. So, the architect can be much more focused on the execution.
Sheri Scott (44:07):
Yeah, it's their full-time job.
Marilyn Moedinger (44:11):
And we've done it before. We've had those conversations a million times, and that's a benefit.
Sheri Scott (44:16):
Absolutely. Okay, well that was a nice conversation with her.
Thanks for joining us on Home: The Second Story. If you'd like to come on the show and share your story, we would love to talk to you. Email us at admin@htsspodcast.com. We'd love to have you as a guest.
Be sure to rate and subscribe wherever you get podcasts and especially follow us on Instagram. We're doing some minis that are answering some of these questions just in quick bites that you can see there. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next time.
[Outro Playing]
Voiceover (44:52):
Thanks for listening to Home: The Second Story Podcast. Feel free to share this episode with a friend. Contact information for both of our architects are in our show notes, and don't miss future episodes. Follow or subscribe to our show for free in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you're listening right now.