In this episode, we talk with John and Lauren Katzman about building their custom multi-generational home in Powell, Ohio, just north of Columbus. Their project was a new build on five acres near a pond and woods. They began working with Sheri and Springhouse Architects well before construction started, and they broke ground in February 2020. About a month later, the pandemic hit. Even with that timing, they moved in by August 2021 and came away feeling supported and safe throughout the process.
John and Lauren built the house for their family and Lauren’s parents. The home includes a true independent apartment for her parents, shared family space in the middle, and a two-story family home on the other side. Privacy was important for everyone. Her parents needed their own kitchen, their own front door, and the ability to close off their side. At the same time, the family wanted to open the house up for everyday life, childcare help, and larger gatherings. The result is a home that can function as one house or two connected homes.
They also share what they would change. John wishes they had added heated floors to their own bathroom, since they included them on the in-laws’ side. Lauren says the solid maple floors are beautiful, but more delicate than expected. They love the natural look, but scratches and stains have made them rethink durability. John also wishes the garage had been just a little taller for a possible car lift, though that idea was news to Lauren.
Many decisions worked very well. The upstairs playroom became one of the biggest wins. It gives the kids a place to spread out, make a mess, store toys, watch TV, and host cousin sleepovers. The siting of the house was another major success. They chose not to put a driveway in front because they wanted to look at the pond, not parked cars. That choice protects the feeling of the property and keeps the house connected to nature.
A major theme is the value of building the right team. John and Lauren worked with an architect and builder who cared about the house, not just the job. Weekly meetings, clear communication, and early problem solving kept the process calm. They did not avoid every issue, but they had people around them who brought options and solutions.
We close by reflecting on what made the project work. A forever home asks for serious planning. A multi-generational home asks for even more honesty about privacy, finances, decision-making, and future care needs. John and Lauren’s home now gives them a feeling of relief when they walk in. It is beautiful, functional, and deeply tied to the land around it.
(00:00) Intro
(01:03) A new build that began in February 2020
(02:12) Finding Springhouse Architects and starting the design process
(04:02) What John and Lauren would do differently
(05:04) Designing a multi-generational home
(10:17) Alzheimer’s, timing, and caregiving at home
(11:37) What worked and what they would rethink
(14:23) The upstairs playroom as a major success
(17:32) Designing the driveway around the pond view
(18:33) Construction surprises and weekly meetings
(22:21) Why the architect and builder team mattered
(26:02) The cost of cutting corners
(31:31) The value of full-service architectural support
(34:05) Creating a house that feels connected to the outdoors
(36:19) What they love most about the finished home
(38:25) Sheri and Marilyn reflect on the conversation
(50:00) Closing and contact information
Sheri Scott (00:00):
Hi, and welcome to Home: The Second Story. We are two residential architects sharing real conversations with homeowners who have taken on custom home or renovation projects. I'm Sheri Scott with Springhouse Architects in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:14):
And I'm Marilyn Moedinger of Runcible Studios in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and Boston, Massachusetts. And today, we are joined by John and Lauren Katzman from Columbus, Ohio. Welcome.
John Katzman (00:26):
Thank you.
Lauren Katzman (00:27):
Thank you.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:28):
Alright, well, we're going to dive right in with our quick-fire questions. So, this is just a quick orientation for our listeners, so they understand a little bit about you and the project. So, first of all, where is your project located?
Lauren Katzman (00:41):
So, we are in Columbus, Ohio, as you said. We're kind of north of Columbus in an area called Powell. Which is a nice suburb outside 270 here in Columbus, Ohio, right by the zoo, so it's really nice.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:59):
Oh, was the project a new build, addition, or renovation?
John Katzman (01:03):
It was a new build.
Marilyn Moedinger (01:05):
Okay. When did you start the project, and when did you move in?
John Katzman (01:10):
We started in February of 2020 is when we broke ground.
Marilyn Moedinger (01:14):
Oh, you're kidding me.
John Katzman (01:15):
Oh, no, definitely not kidding.
[Laughter]
So, about what, 30 days later, we had a ton of wood delivered. It was sitting on the ground, and then the whole country said, “Sorry, we're out.” So, yeah, that was an interesting time going through that. Moving through. And then we finished in August of ‘21. So, yeah, it was about 18 months.
Lauren Katzman (01:38):
But we started with Sheri for a year before we actually did the building.
Sheri Scott (01:45):
Right. Yeah, I looked that up, and it was in 2018, actually. From our job number, yeah.
Lauren Katzman (01:51):
We took our time; we did it right.
Marilyn Moedinger (01:53):
That's good. That's good. Well, we definitely want to hear more about that. And I guess this is our last quickfire question, and you guys have already started to answer it, but there are a lot of different ways to work with an architect.
So, in this project, sounds like you did work with an architect. Was that through the whole project? How did that work?
Lauren Katzman (02:12):
So (my husband and I), we bought up five acres (so we're really lucky), and we were sitting on it for a while. And so, we knew we needed an architect that was going to really take care of us from beginning to end.
And I just went on the internet, and I looked up modern, organic architects, Columbus, Ohio. And Springhouse Architects popped up, and we made a phone call, and Sheri came out and sat down and looked at all my dream boards on Pinterest, and we started there.
And she and her team helped us from beginning to end. They helped us find our builder; they helped us with all the interiors. They worked hard on all of the beginning meetings, really setting us up for success and was available at any point we needed them. So, from beginning to end.
Sheri Scott (03:15):
Great answer, Lauren.
[Laughter]
I do remember the very first phone call. I don't know why, I don't remember many clients exactly how we first get connected, but for some reason, I remember that very first phone call with you. And your quote that I remember is you said, “I'm a buyer, not a shopper.”
[Laughter]
And so, you were like, “If I make a decision, I'm just making the decision.” And a lot of times we hear that from clients that we make decisions really fast or something along those lines. But you really held true to that from picking us all the way through all of your selections. So, it was a great process.
Lauren Katzman (04:01):
Yeah.
Sheri Scott (04:02):
So, the big question is, knowing what you know now, what would you do differently? And we can take these step by step or start small, whatever.
John Katzman (04:12):
I probably have two tiny things. And it was probably more on us and me as we were going through. And it was really thinking about as we were doing the new build what specifically would be something that we would really, really, really like.
And I guess probably timing-wise, I just wasn't thinking like, “Oh, a heated floor in the bathroom would be fantastic. We did it for the in-laws’ side, why didn't we do it for ours?”
[Laughter]
And then you're like, “Man, that would've been a whole lot easier had we done that when we were putting that together” kind of situation. It's not a deal breaker. It is what it is on that. And I'm sure at some point, if we ever do decide to redo the master bathroom, then yeah, we'll probably work on something like that. That was probably my biggest thing.
Lauren Katzman (05:04):
I think I talked you out of it. I think that's my fault.
[Laughter]
I will take ownership of that decision. I think I was like, “We're not a big deal. It's fine. We'll have some rugs.” It was not a big deal. But something I guess we didn't really mention in all of this is that this home is different than many homes in that it's a multi-generational home.
And having that new build and having that architect role was really helpful in designing a home that had space for two separate houses, but also in the same home, and that flow between sides. With my parents on one side and us with our two kids on the other.
Sheri Scott (05:43):
That was a big part of working together. A big part of those meetings. So, just for the listeners, there's the in-laws' side, a true apartment independent living layout. And then we have shared family room space in the center, and then a two-story family home on your guys' side.
So, talk a little bit about that, how that process went because I think it's a big topic for us right now. Everyone's thinking about multi-generational homes. The more expensive housing gets, the less inventory there is in homes.
More people are asking about multi-generational, but it seems like it's a hard enough task when you're just doing it, you and your family, but then when you bring in in-laws and moms and dads, then people get a little bit nervous about that.
John Katzman (06:47):
I would say it was a little challenging to do the layout and make sure that we both have independent functional spaces and be able to have those boundaries. Because at the time, we had much younger children when we built this house (chuckles).
So, they were also worried about having their independence and privacy on their side. It wasn't just us worried about them coming over. They were worried about our children coming over and being able to have their privacy as well.
But I think that the solution that we ended up working with you, Sheri and Springhouse, it's not just a normal condo or apartment feel. They can close off the huge doors like we have. We have two sets of these. And then they're in their own independent space.
They have their own kitchen; they have all of their own stuff. They don't need to talk to us if they choose not to do that.
[Laughter]
And sometimes, maybe it is a day or two before we hear from them over on their side. But then being able to open up in between the two spaces and having the large connector in between us, which is really special because that is a spot that we can use for a lot of family events that are in there with extended family coming in.
And then it just all feels like it's one home. And then when we're done, we can go back to our privacy and close those in the mornings, and then they know. But we have a very functional relationship between them as well. They're helping with the kids in the morning and busing and stuff like that. So, it's very nice. And I'm sure that was a challenge when you guys were working on that. But I think we nailed it.
Sheri Scott (08:31):
Yeah. And I remember us all taking it very seriously and talking about … I think Lauren, it was your mom who said, “I want to be able to have a friend over and they come to my front door, not come through Lauren's house to get over here.” So, we worked that out too.
John Katzman (08:50):
That was easier to design with you. That was a whole lot harder to get the township to agree to that (chuckles). So, two front doors on a house is not something normal. They don't like that.
Lauren Katzman (09:01):
Amazon does have a hard time figuring out which door to drop things.
Sheri Scott (09:05):
Oh, I bet. I bet they do.
Lauren Katzman (09:06):
The DoorDash man, we feel for the DoorDash drivers trying to figure out where do we drop the food off. But no, I would say it worked out great. I would say something that really helps with that feeling more than just an apartment is just the height of the room (their main living area) and the windows that were designed in that whole space, is just this very well-sunlit space.
And our side is too, of course. And my mom, I wasn't realizing (laughs) she was paying attention to the surface area but not the volume. And she was so hyper-fixated on needing skylights or having light tubes in different parts of her house not realizing that she was going to have a story-plus height of windows into her space.
She didn't realize how tall her house was going to be until we pointed it out. Now, it's personal, but as a side piece, my mother was going through the early beginnings of Alzheimer's when we designed the house together.
Sheri Scott (10:17):
Oh, I didn't realize that.
Lauren Katzman (10:18):
Which we did not know because it was COVID times. And so, that does add another flavor to the difficulties and the emotionality of working alongside one another as we're making decisions. And also, I think it helped explain some of her hyper-fixations during the whole process. But it's really nice now that we're all here together to help take care of her.
Sheri Scott (10:42):
Yes. Wow, yes, the timing was good.
Marilyn Moedinger (10:46):
And along those lines, I think, planning intergenerationally means that you're planning for multiple phases of life. Some of those phases, you might not even know what is in store.
And so, I'm curious to hear a little bit about, as you were designing, as you were carefully thinking through what you imagine things would be like or imagine all this, now that you've been in the house, what are some things that you got really right?
And what are some things that, “Well, if I had to do it over again or if I know…” Or is there anything? I don't know, Sheri's here. She-
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (11:24):
Please speak freely.
John Katzman (11:26):
No, no, you're good. You're good.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (11:28):
But I'm curious about that. Because there's the careful planning and then there's the reality of living in it. And you guys now have a few years of living there. So, I'm curious about that.
John Katzman (11:37):
I got two things. I want you to go first. One good and one that I think I messed up.
Lauren Katzman (11:42):
I think for mine, it's not a design flaw, I think it's more of a materials choice. We have beautiful floors.
[Laughter]
We have beautiful floors, they were so well done.
Sheri Scott (11:58):
Solid wood.
Lauren Katzman (11:59):
Solid wood.
John Katzman (12:00):
Yep, maple. Yep.
Lauren Katzman (12:01):
Amish-made, very beautiful. The people we worked with were fantastic. They've already come back out a couple times to fix problems that have happened to this beautiful hardwood floor.
John Katzman (12:15):
It's a little delicate.
Lauren Katzman (12:16):
But I feel like I look at it wrong and it scratches.
Marilyn Moedinger (12:21):
Maple? Really?
Lauren Katzman (12:23):
You can just see every little bit. And maybe I just need to put carpets down. I have no rugs anywhere, and maybe I need to fix that. It would help with the echoes. This house is a loud house. Because we have such high ceilings.
But I would say I kind of wish there was something a little bit more durable on the floor, especially if I get a dog because I want a dog.
Sheri Scott (12:50):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Lauren Katzman (12:53):
The floor is great, but I worry about messing up such a nice thing.
Sheri Scott (12:56):
Yeah, that's interesting. I don't think that I would have counseled you differently knowing that because maple is a very hard wood. And I know the quality that you guys had installed was very high. So, I just wonder if it's one of those where, because it's a new build, when it went in, it was so perfect. No scratches anywhere that you're expecting to keep that for a long time.
[Laughter]
Lauren Katzman (13:24):
Yeah, that's fair.
John Katzman (13:26):
It's lived in. We have young children; things are going to happen. It is a little sensitive to staining for certain things, which is a little different on that. The floor is awesome, but it's a little lighter on that.
Sheri Scott (13:42):
It’s something you would reconsider.
John Katzman (13:44):
Yeah, or maybe a different coating if we ended up lacquering it or something to harden the surface right and prevent potentially, scratches from dog claws or other things potentially. Something like that.
Sheri Scott (14:00):
Yeah, that could have been a little bit different if you had used a pre-engineered wood. You could get a harder surface on it.
John Katzman (14:08):
But we love the natural look where it's a little lighter, it's not shiny. So, it reflects beautifully, and the aesthetic of the house is perfect.
Lauren Katzman (14:20):
Yes, very much so.
John Katzman (14:21):
Alright.
Lauren Katzman (14:22):
Okay, you want to say something?
John Katzman (14:23):
One thing I think we absolutely knocked out the park for sure, and I know we worked on it a lot with you, Sheri, was the playroom upstairs.
Sheri Scott (14:31):
Oh, yes, the playroom is great.
John Katzman (14:33):
So, it's a huge room that's upstairs. We were like, “Hey, are we going to do two more bedrooms upstairs or are we going to make this a functional space for kiddos and do the playroom?” And we went around a little bit and then we started working. “Okay, let's just paint it. Okay, let's put some drywall. Alright, well, we're already in it.”
[Laughter]
“We might as well just go ahead and finish this thing off, right?” And the way that we ended up working with you guys and building that bed system on the side. It's just a low bench system that has tons of storage cubbies underneath that we can put the plastic bins in, and the kids are up there. There's a TV, there's a couch. They can just go up there and make a huge mess.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (15:19):
But it's contained.
John Katzman (15:21):
No, we don't have to look at that for a while. And finally, you're like, “You got to clean this up.” That worked so well for cousin sleepovers and other things that are up there. They can be up there. It also helps that it's over our master bedroom in there.
And so, we can hear them early in the morning if they're getting into trouble or doing other things or staying up late at night. I think that that playroom really, really worked out well. The kids are really starting to use it now that they're coming of age in there. And it's going to be a huge benefit for a very long time with bookshelves and everything.
The one thing I'll say that I think … I know we tailored a lot around it for the garage. Our side for our garage. We got a three-car garage in the back. I think I would've made it a tiny bit taller and raised the roof on the house a smidge. Because I am very mechanically inclined, and so we made it so we could fit the boat in there, but I wish I would've made a tiny bit taller for a lift for cars.
Marilyn Moedinger (16:29):
I'm doing that for a client right now.
[Laughter]
John Katzman (16:33):
So, I think we could have changed that. And honestly, it's not even that big of a deal. It's not like it's a deal breaker or anything. I'm sure I could probably just end up putting one right outside on the driveway that's out there if I really, really needed to do something. But I don't honestly see it ever getting to that level.
Marilyn Moedinger (16:55):
Lauren’s shaking her head.
[Laughter]
Lauren Katzman (16:59):
It’s news to me as well.
Marilyn Moedinger (17:00):
I feel like I just want to point that out.
John Katzman (17:01):
No, it's not going to happen.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (17:03):
For anyone who's not watching (laughs).
Lauren Katzman (17:07):
Too funny. No, I think there was a lot of thought and consideration put into place in that garage for the boat, and how the maneuverability of that back space with the driveway and where can we park a boat and how much room do we need to be able to back it in? And there was a lot of just math done to figure out that space-
Sheri Scott (17:32):
And to come around the pond all the way around.
Lauren Katzman (17:36):
Now, we have had people give us guff that we did not include the driveway in front of the house.
Sheri Scott (17:44):
I know we talked about that, but you wanted to be connected to the pond. This is an interesting lot where we designed the house, so it sits with the front of the house faces the natural pond that was on the land.
It’s just beautiful. And we wanted to be close enough to it that we felt like we were on the pond. But then we didn't want to pave it all with driveway all the way through.
John Katzman (18:09):
I still don't want to pave it, so that's not-
Lauren Katzman (18:11):
I am happy with our choice. But again, the Amazon truck drivers have a hard time realizing that they're not allowed to drive out the gravel sidewalk that is in front of our pond. Or we've had friends who complain about it, like, “Why didn't you put a driveway?”
Because I don't want cars in front of my house blocking the view. I don't want to be sitting in my house looking at a car. I want to be sitting in my house looking at a pond.
Sheri Scott (18:33):
Yeah. And those are important decisions to make. I know you guys used Bellepoint as your builder, and we found them through a process of interviewing them, asking them for ballpark bidding, and then you guys really ended up having a connection with them, and they ended up being your builder. Was there anything during construction that surprised you?
John Katzman (19:04):
Yeah, I would say-
[Laughter]
Well, good stuff. I know a lot of people are extremely intimidated to build a house. A custom home is not an easy undertaking. Which is why you really have to trust and believe in your architect when you're doing that and your builder.
And between you and Bellepoint, I personally never felt like, “Oh my gosh, what are we walking into?” We had weekly meetings, which were fantastic. It was a three-week layout. “Here's what we did last week, here's what we're doing this week, and here's what we're doing the week after.”
And that was very important. And the way that they would address issues like, “Hey, I know this works on paper. I know this is what we designed, but maybe we have to change something just a tiny bit.”
Or “Hey, I know that we selected to use this material. We know that it doesn't respond well in certain conditions or it doesn't mesh with the other piece that you're going to use.” And we would always have two or three other options.
“Here's the option that we would choose. Here's the option that potentially could be a better alternative or maybe the same but doesn't provide exactly what we wanted.” So, there was always three choices. A comparable price. Here's the functionality you're looking for.
So, we never felt like we're walking in and there was a problem and we had to solve that problem. And sometimes it did come back to where we had to reach back out with you Sheri, and be like, “Hey, we got to do a little tweak or redesign,” or one of the other architects that we were working with. And going through that.
And I always felt supported. I cannot say enough good things about it. I've had so little stress when we were building this house compared to other friends or family members when you know they've done it and they’re like, “It was the worst 24 months of my life or something.”
Marilyn Moedinger (21:11):
We hear that a lot.
Sheri Scott (21:12):
Yeah. It's the team that you build.
Lauren Katzman (21:16):
Whenever I talk to people, I usually use the word “safe.” We were so safe and during a pandemic when the world doesn't feel safe, but we felt safe building a house during a pandemic. That is, I don't know, magical. And no, we couldn't have asked for a better team.
John Katzman (21:35):
Agreed.
Marilyn Moedinger (21:38):
So, obviously the premise of a lot of what we talk about on here is how people can share wisdom having been through the process. What I'm also interested in is that many people are concerned about putting together an A-team because they're concerned about cost.
They're concerned it will be too expensive to do it this way. And it's better to muddle through and save the money, or at least they think they're going to save the money. Can you talk a little bit about what prompted you to go this route in the first place?
To go with the route that meant assembling that A-team. And spending a little bit more on the A team but hopefully finding what sounds like a pretty serious amount of value.
John Katzman (22:21):
Oh, yeah. I'll say from my side when we were doing the selection and working through everything, my parents had built two houses prior. So, I had had a little experience in the new build foray, if you want to call it that. And going into that portion.
And we lean heavily on my parents and my father, especially through this build process. And “Hey, I'm going to let you know what's going on here.” Especially when we were looking for that.
And one of the biggest things that was important and really, really, really valuable (and I can't stress it enough for others who are looking to do this process), is that your architect, especially if you are just planning on buying some plans or having somebody whip something up and then never see that architect again and then going to a builder and saying, “Here's my thing, go ahead and build this for me.”
That is very hard to do. I don't care if you're the best builder in the world. Because you are reading somebody else's stuff. Yes, there's numbers on there. Yes, there's a vision on there. But when that whole process came together and understanding what Springhouse offers. What Sheri and her team were there for us, “Hey, if you have questions, ask us.”
I'm unfamiliar with this process, even to somebody who had a little experience in the new build portion, having them on our side to be able to go out and talk with that builder and, “No, this is not what my client wanted. They want to be able to see this. This is the vision that we saw.”
When that can be relayed and there's real-time conversation that happens between those two, everything just goes so much smoother when you're in there. Instead of them sending an email and waiting or never hearing back.
Or like I said, if you buy plans, you're like, “Build this for me.” That person's never going to respond to you. That architect doesn't matter to that project. And when we had originally looked and talked with both Springhouse and Bellepoint, and everybody met up on the property.
We all walked the property, and then they're like, “Wow, are you a hunter? Can you see yourself doing this thing? We love the pond.” Everybody was in there and feeling the connection of what had been put on paper and that dream.
And that was really the key of like, “These are the people who I want to build my house.” Sheri, I don't know if you remember when we went and talked with one of the other builders in town for this project. And they're a huge builder. Huge builder-
[Laughter]
In Columbus, Ohio. And they said, “Yeah, we can build a house.” And I said, “That's not what I'm asking you. I'm asking you if you want to build my house.” And the answer I got was, “I can build a house.” I said, “That's not what I'm asking you. Do you want to build my house?”
And about a week later, we got the no because it was not a big enough project. Probably timeline for some other things. But that is so important for people to be able to ask and feel. It is not a one-way street.
You are paying people a lot of money to build your house the way that you want your house to be built. And that is what matters the most. If they are not into it, if they're not sharing your passion, it's not right. It doesn't matter.
Lauren Katzman (25:52):
To add on that-
Marilyn Moedinger (25:55):
Hear, hear.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (25:56):
Yes. I know. Saying all the right things, thank you.
Lauren Katzman (26:02):
I'm not going to try to top that obviously. I'm just going to add to it a little bit. Coming back to that question of money. One thing that I feel really blessed in is that I'm married to a man who doesn't cut corners to save a couple bucks.
Where I feel like we've had experience from friends and neighbors where there's maybe a person or both people in the couple where they are counting the pennies, but in the end, it's going to cost them hundreds of dollars.
And so, we want to do it right and we want to do it right the first time. And we knew with our team that it was going to be done right. And we felt that kind of open communication like we've already mentioned.
And in the end, we've witnessed our neighbor across the pond build a house with a lot more struggle, I'll say, where we'd never struggled. It wasn't a struggle. And in the end, I love my house a lot more than I love my neighbor's house.
[Laughter]
And I watched the struggles that they went through, and it caused me anxiety. Anxiety that I never had when we were building our house, just watching someone else because they were cutting corners.
And in the end, you can't take the money with you. And can you really put a price on how well you sleep at night, not staying up late worrying about this, that, or the other? So, I'm really lucky that I have a husband who's on the same page as I am as far as doing it right.
Sheri Scott (27:34):
Yeah. I do want to point out your build was not easy or perfect. And I think that the point is that you had a team together that worked together as a team. So, there were things that came up, and it's like maybe it wasn't the best way, or something came together a little bit differently.
It's all a custom home; it's the first time anyone has ever done this home before. So, we know that as architects, that questions are going to come up. We're going to solve problems. And if we're a team together, that's the way it works.
And you end up with a process that, yes, we meet on-site and we talk through these things, but we bring solutions to you. The builder, Bellepoint, was amazing at identifying things ahead of time, not panicking and not bringing things to us two weeks late to solve problems.
So, I think that the team mentality goes deep. And no project is ever perfect. So, building that team early is really important.
Marilyn Moedinger (28:41):
Yeah. And I just want to underline everything you guys are saying. And I also want to say to our listeners, this is not scripted. These are the things we know.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (28:50):
These are all the things we say, though.
Marilyn Moedinger (28:51):
These are all the things we say. But I think also what you guys have woven throughout your comments is this idea of value that goes beyond this minute or the pennies for the dollars. This is an intergenerational home where you're living with family. This is a forever home, is what I'm picking up here.
John Katzman (29:17):
It is a forever home (chuckles).
Marilyn Moedinger (29:18):
Yeah. So, it's the biggest investment that most people make. There's all these things that come together in that way. And I think the work that you guys have clearly done with each other as well, I think often goes unstated in these projects.
So, sometimes when people say they have a rough project and they had a good builder, good architect. “Okay, so, where was the rub?” And Lauren, it’s partially what you're saying there, because most of the time our clients are couples.
So, in a couple, you have to be on the same page, or you have to talk through these things, or you have to be ready to work with each other through making tons of decisions and prioritizing the things that matter to you in life, and how that plays out in your house. And I think I want to call attention to that as important work that you guys have done. So, (laughs) good job, guys.
[Laughter]
And for our listeners to understand. So, the team is important, but the homeowner is a major, major part of that team, an equal part of that team. And that team needs to be strong too. And we can help as professionals with decision-making.
But the homeowner has to be on board with wanting to be a really strong participant in that team. So, I just want to underline that too for folks.
Lauren Katzman (30:45):
Thank you. I think there was definitely areas of the home or parts of the home that I was more interested in or invested in. And there (were) definitely decisions that John was more interested in or invested in, especially style-wise.
John Katzman (31:00):
Kitchen.
Lauren Katzman (31:02):
The kitchen is his.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (31:04):
It's good though. It's good to draw those boundaries and say, “This is yours; this is mine.” Or “You're the point person here. I'm the point person there.” That's good.
Lauren Katzman (31:12):
And we have an unfinished basement that we need to start talking about and tackling here in the future.
John Katzman (31:18):
Yeah, that's the next project, Sheri. So, get ready.
Sheri Scott (31:21):
Okay. I'm on board, I'm on board.
[Laughter]
Was there anything else you guys had on your mind to share during the construction process or anything?
John Katzman (31:31):
I kind of said it before, but understanding the structure of what your architect and their team is going to do for you is so incredibly important. I thought originally like, “Hey, we're going to work with Springhouse, we're going to get our plans,” kind of situation. I know that you are full service.
You're beginning to end, which is phenomenal. And it was like, “Okay, maybe we can just get some plans and then work through that.” Now, I'm like, “Boy, that would've been a huge mistake.” I think we would've fallen into a trap where a lot of others would have.
I cannot put a price on the value of what you and your team did in helping us beginning to end the entire process. Being there and working through that is so vitally important to that safety net and being able to share that as it moves full circle.
Very beginning phase of like, “Hey, this is what we want.” “Okay, maybe that's not what we want because that's way too much money.”
[Laughter]
Lauren Katzman (32:33):
That did happen.
John Katzman (32:34):
That did happen once. I'd go back to the drawing board and be like, “Okay, maybe we need to change this up a little bit.” And did a whole lot of revisions on that. And you guys were very gracious and helped us through that.
Sheri Scott (32:46):
Well, it is part of the process, and I hope we shared that with you because it is a process. It's a back and forth. Every once in a while, we'll get a home run on the first try, but that's not really even what we're trying to do on the first try.
You always want them to fall in love with it, fall in love with the concept, but there's more work to do after that.
John Katzman (33:12):
So, then working through that and getting everything in the end. “Okay, now it's 2.0 time. Let's go ahead. Make sure…” Because sometimes that's very difficult to get that love out of your head. You're like, “This is what it was. This is our design. How are we going to work through this?”
But that's part of the struggle. And you guys were there to support us the entire time and really, “Hey, I know we can't have this, but let's move it over here.” And work through that where we still got it to the house and got things in there.
It was like, “Okay, do we need two porches? One on top of the other? No, that's silly. No one's ever going to be on the second floor for that. That's crazy.” So, just do one. And work through those pieces and really seeing the vision in the end and it all came together beautifully.
Lauren Katzman (34:05):
I would say that my goal was to create a house that you felt like you were outside while you were inside. I think that’s something that I said to you, Sheri, at the beginning of it all. And I would say that we reached that goal magnificently. We're sitting here at our dining room table, and I'm looking at the woods.
John Katzman (34:24):
We have woods in front of us. We've got a pond over here. We’ve got everything. The kids can look out and see ducks in the pond and all that stuff. And we have deer in the woods. It's fantastic when you wake up in the morning, except maybe when a raccoon's looking at you when she's trying to get-
[Laughter]
Lauren Katzman (34:40):
Or the goose standing on top of your grill. But we have a really special property, and the house never took away from it. And it allowed us to live here and appreciate it. And every time we cut down a tree, my heart was hurt a little bit.
Sheri Scott (34:59):
I know. That's the other thing I remember about this project. We had to clear not even that many trees. We picked the clearest spot there was, but we still had to take down good, healthy trees.
Lauren Katzman (35:11):
And one of the trees then turned into this beautiful door behind us. We were able to repurpose some of that wood and the front door, I do not recall exactly whose idea was that front door, Sheri, but I remember you being so excited to share the front door. And for those who are listening, it's a beautiful, very, very, very tall door that has a tree in it cut into the woods.
Marilyn Moedinger (35:39):
I think I've seen pictures of this.
John Katzman (35:41):
Carved into it. Done beautifully.
Marilyn Moedinger (35:44):
Well, I don't know, guys; this does sound like a home run.
[Laughter]
John Katzman (35:48):
Oh, it's a home run. I'm very excited to come home every single day and see my house and people who drive by. We had a lot of looky-loos when we were just finished. We didn't have any of the rocks in front so that we couldn't block them.
And they were driving back seeing the other new build that was near us, and they were, “Gosh, we love your house. Who's your builder?” And Lauren's like, “Can we just have some privacy, please?”
[Laughter]
We're back in the woods; we didn't want anybody seeing where we were.
Sheri Scott (36:19):
Got to be quieter now, yeah. So, we always do a wrap-up question. I think you've probably already answered this, but we always ask, we know no project is ever perfect, but we would like to know what's something about your finished home that you love every time you see it or use it?
Lauren Katzman (36:38):
It's more of a feeling where your shoulders drop out of your ears.
John Katzman (36:46):
Yeah, a lot of relaxation. I would say even though the house, it's very, very nice, it still feels extremely functional for everything that we have. We come in, if I'm working outside, we're cutting a lot of grass that's out there. I'm working in the pond because we do a lot of pond management.
We have a mudroom and it's fantastic, and we can get things cleaned up in there, and then we don't mess up the rest of the house. It's just very easy. And everything around really feels like it's meant to be there.
There's not spots in the house where it's like, “Man, I haven't looked in that drawer in three years,” no. Everything in this house gets used the way that a house should be.
Lauren Katzman (37:33):
It's beautifully functional.
John Katzman (37:35):
Yep.
Lauren Katzman (37:35):
Yes. In a relaxing way (laughs).
Sheri Scott (37:39):
Thank you, you guys. You've filled up my ego bucket today.
[Laughter]
And I appreciate it; I loved that project. I look back on pictures of it and come across the drawings every once in a while, and it's a pleasure to have been able to work on your project.
John Katzman (37:58):
Same. I'm very happy that we ended up meeting you and working with you and your team for sure.
Marilyn Moedinger (38:05):
And I feel like for our listeners, this too can be you if you put together a good team. You can be on the podcast in a couple years with a story just like this. If you put together a good team (laughs).
Sheri Scott (38:20):
That’s right. Thank you. Thanks for your time.
Lauren Katzman (38:23):
Thank you.
John Katzman (38:24):
Absolutely. Thank you for having us.
Marilyn Moedinger (38:25):
Thanks, guys. Well, that was fun to hear about how great you are, Sheri.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (38:28):
I know it's nice to hear every once in a while.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (38:32):
Well, I will say this, we just had this whole long podcast where there were all these lovely things. Usually, as working professionals, as architects, contractors, builders, whatever, we don't often get to hear these stories, about how people are looking back on their build or their design process or enjoying the space now. So, I think that's pretty special. And also, for our listeners, we don't often get to hear that ever (laughs). So, that's nice.
(Transition)
Sheri Scott (39:02):
So, yeah, that was very nice. They said a lot of very kind things, which I appreciate. It was a great project, a great team. I agree with what you had brought up, Marilyn. They were great clients. They listened; they took in information.
They pushed back and asked for what they wanted. And it really was textbook. And like I said, not a perfect project, but textbook in solving problems and redoing and really getting to the point of something that you love.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:38):
I think that's the key. And one of the themes that continues to come up as we interview more and more folks, is to push back and stand up for what you want. And that there's a way to do that while still maintaining strong, positive relationships with your team.
You're saying that they did push back or ask for things that they wanted. And that not only was that good from your perspective (you want them to do that, it's their house), but also, you are able to continue having a great relationship.
And I think sometimes people are afraid if they stand up for what they want, that it's going to be bad for the relationship or it's going to cause problems. And if that's the case, if you're a homeowner and you're embarking on a project and you feel like you can't bring things up, don't hire that person.
That should be something that you should try to discern early before you hire them in that interviewing process. Figure out how open your team is to you bringing up those things and pushing back. And if the person says, “No, it's my vision and I do what I want,” then that's probably not a good fit for most people (laughs).
Sheri Scott (40:48):
Right, for most people, yeah. And I will say, we like our clients so much, but we work very hard to keep a professional relationship, especially during the project. And that helps people be comfortable and confident coming to us and saying, “This isn't quite right.”
Because we're not best friends. It's a fine line (laughs), and it's hard not to really be best friends with your clients sometimes, but I think it's important. I think it's important to keep a professional relationship so that everyone knows their job.
Marilyn Moedinger (41:31):
That's a really important thing. We haven't really talked about that. Maybe we should do a little snack or something on that, about the relationship. How to maintain a professional relationship. What that entails.
Because we are (as design professionals) getting very up close and personal to people's lives. Asking them all sorts of questions about their personal lives. We're designing their bathrooms, for goodness’ sake.
[Laughter]
You need to know a lot of information. And for us, we've heard it all before. For the most part, never say you've heard it all.
Sheri Scott (42:07):
For sure. Then you'll be surprised.
Marilyn Moedinger (42:09):
Yeah, exactly. But I think that's part of it, and for people to feel comfortable bringing those things up. So, I also think that they've said it towards the end, but that this is a forever intergenerational home. Five acres, they found their perfect spot. This is it.
So, it is worth it to them. And they understand the value of taking the time, doing things the right way, taking down the trees on the lot, which was really sad, but also turning that into the door and honoring that story.
And I think when it is your forever home, that really unlocks a lot for homeowners. Because it's a legacy, it's not just a flip or a five-year thing.
Sheri Scott (42:55):
Right. Yeah, I love that. A couple nuts and bolts thing I liked, they talked about the weekly meeting on-site. So, we were there with them every week or every two weeks. I forget, it was five years ago now.
But the builder that they worked with (Bellepoint), their processes are among the best that I've worked with, honestly. And I know we don't promote builders here, but I do appreciate the process where they come prepared to every meeting. And John brought this up and reminded me, they give an update, a three-week update.
What happened last week, what happens this week, and what we're looking forward to? So, that calms everything down right away. That's what everyone wants to know (laughs). What happened? What have you been doing? And if you don't just have a system to do those things, that's where some of the anxiety comes from.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:57):
That's right. And if the builder is not willing to do that, or if you're interviewing builders and you say, “What does our weekly meeting look like?” Or “Are you keeping the agenda?” Or “Can you give me an example of a weekly meeting agenda or minutes from one of your meetings during the week, and what kinds of things are on there?”
And if they're looking at you going, “What?” Then that's not a builder for a custom home. It's just not. And that's okay. There are different builders who do different things, but I know all the builders that I work with who are custom builders who work at that level would agree 100%. That's how they run their operations. And I think that's really good, that nuts and bolts.
I want to bring up one thing that John said sort of quickly. This is a hot take. So, he said about having a porch upstairs and downstairs. Stacked porches. My hot take is you should never do that. No one ever uses second-floor porches. They think they're going to and they never do. So, hot take. You heard it here first. Don't do it. Everyone thinks they're going to have their coffee outside-
Sheri Scott (45:03):
Right? (Laughs) talk about that all the time.
Marilyn Moedinger (45:05):
Their primary bedroom. Guess what? They're not going to because they're going to go downstairs, make the coffee, and then they're going to go sit on the back deck.
Sheri Scott (45:13):
Or go to work.
Marilyn Moedinger (45:14):
Or go to work.
Sheri Scott (45:15):
(Laughs) Do it on vacation. Have a balcony on vacation.
Marilyn Moedinger (45:19):
Have your balcony on vacation, yep. Also, just want to point out the comment about the flooring. So, materials being super important, and not everything always ends up perfect or meeting full expectations or whatever.
So, they said they really liked the look of it, but maybe it wasn't performing up to what they needed. And sometimes we didn't get into it. Whether or not someone is a shoeless household, whether there are kids who are running toys and trucks and whatever, dogs.
So, all of those things come into play. And I think that's an example of something that sounds like you guys did. Sounds like you went through the right process.
But just to underline that and say materials-wise, it's good to talk through all those things and make sure, “Are there certain spaces that you might want to do tile or stone or something that's more hardy in certain areas?” Just for those reasons. But maple's very hard, so I was surprised to hear.
Sheri Scott (46:15):
Yeah. And so, honestly, know yourself. For our listeners, know that if there are scratches on your wood floor, if it's going to drive you crazy. So, maybe wood floor is not the right selection. With all the given information, I think they still made the right selection. But just some maintenance issues (laughs) that they're dealing with.
I did want to touch on the multi-generational home and how they navigated that as a family. It was a good process to be a part of. It, as well as the build, was not perfect. There were times when we were getting direction from multiple people.
And again, going back to the professional relationship we had with them, we did have to have a meeting to say, “Look, we need one point of contact that makes the decisions.” That was something that we fell back on.
Because as an architect, it is hard to navigate those decisions when you have parents and then kids, but the kids are in charge (laughs). It's their house really. So, there's a lot of those things to figure out in a multi-generational home.
So, if you're thinking of embarking on that, do some work ahead of time and have a talk with your family and decide who's going to make decisions? Who's going to be in charge financially? Who is going to set the meetings? Who's going to be at every meeting? Have those conversations early.
Marilyn Moedinger (47:58):
I agree 100%. We've done several multi-generational houses. I think it's going to continue to be something that people are looking for. And one of the biggest ones (and you said it and I want to underline it) is the financial thing.
So, sometimes if the kids (meaning adult kids) are paying for it, then sometimes parents are like, “Well, I don't want to ask for this because I feel guilty asking for certain things.” And then they make a bunch of compromises that then aren't great.
And the adult kids are like, “Oh my gosh, we totally would've done X and Y if that would've made such a big difference.” So, understanding how the finances are flowing. Because also sometimes, it's the older parents, grandparents are paying for everything, but they have a much smaller portion of the house.
Also, how is your equity working? Who's putting what in? Who's selling what? Is anyone contributing? So, all those things are really important, and we can help with those conversations, but we are also not people's financial planners or tax advisors or legal whatever.
But sometimes, us having these conversations with people can help uncover who they need to talk to. So, you don't have to feel like you have to have it all figured out before you come to us. You could come to us as architects and say, “We're kind of all over the place. How do we plan this?”
And we can sit down and say, “Okay, let's talk through some things. You know what? After this conversation, here are the three people you need to talk to and here are the three major decisions you need to make around who's doing what.”
And that initial strategic session, if you go to a tax accountant, they're going to tell you tax accountant stuff.
[Laughter]
They're not going to tell you like, “Zoning-wise, you can't have two front doors,” or whatever the case may be. So, I think that's another plug for people to call us early and let us help them through that process so that they're doing things in a smart way. On that note (laughs) …
Sheri Scott (50:00):
Okay, I think that's a wrap. Thanks for joining us on Home: The Second Story. If you'd like to come on the show and share your story, email us at admin@htsspodcast.com. We'd love to have you as a guest.
Please be sure to rate and subscribe wherever you get podcasts and follow us on Instagram. We'll see you next time.
[Music playing]
Voiceover (50:19):
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