In this episode of Home: The Second Story, we sit down with Niki Gulick, a seasoned homeowner and real estate agent who has built two custom homes and is considering a third. As residential architects, we dive into her journey to uncover lessons that can help future homeowners navigate their own projects. Niki walks us through her most recent home build, a 6,600-square-foot modern mountain lodge on a six-acre lot in South Dayton, Ohio. Although the design was originally conceived with a former partner, she chose to move forward due to favorable interest rates and timing, despite some compromises on the layout.
We discuss the importance of choosing the right team, especially a builder who has experience with projects of a similar scale. Niki highlights a critical moment when she was blindsided by a potential $15,000 gas line issue—something she believes a more experienced builder would have anticipated. This leads us to the key takeaway: make sure your builder has experience at or above the complexity of your planned project and request to speak directly with past clients to understand how issues were handled.
Niki also reflects on the role of the architect, noting how working with Sheri for a second time made the design process more efficient and enjoyable. She appreciates Sheri’s thoughtful design additions, like a three-story wall of windows and a spiral staircase, which enhanced the functionality and aesthetics of the home. However, she also acknowledges that she ended up serving as a de facto project manager, coordinating details that ideally would have been handled by others.
We explore the concept of having a “partner” in the build process—whether that’s an architect, a contractor, or a personal support system—emphasizing that it's nearly impossible to manage such a large endeavor alone. Niki’s story underlines that building a house is not just about money or design; it's a second job requiring time, emotional energy, and technical decision-making.
Looking ahead to a possible third project, Niki aims for simplicity and more strategic delegation. Her parting advice? Know what level of involvement you’re willing to commit to and choose your team accordingly. And despite the stress, when she looks out her bedroom window at the pond and fountain framed by Sheri’s beautiful window design, she knows it was worth it.
Jon Gay (00:02):
Everyone says how horrible it'll be to renovate or build your house. We're here to say, it doesn't have to be that way.
Join three seasoned architects as they interview homeowners who recently completed a large project, and ask them one simple question: what do you know now that you wish you knew before you started?
Welcome to Home: The Second Story Podcast.
Taylor Davis (00:25):
Welcome to Home: The Second Story. We are three residential architects sharing real conversations with homeowners who have taken on custom home or renovation projects.
If you haven't already, check out our first episode to hear more about us and why we're doing this. I'm Taylor Davis from TPD Architects, and I'm joined by my co-hosts …
Marilyn Moedinger (00:44):
Marilyn Moedinger of Runcible Studios in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and Boston, Massachusetts.
Sheri Scott (00:51):
And I'm Sheri Scott with Spring House Architects, and our guest today is Niki Gulick. Hi, Niki.
Niki Gulick (00:58):
Hello.
Sheri Scott (00:59):
Niki has built two homes and is considering building a third, but we'll talk about that, get into those details a little bit later. Niki, thanks for being here.
Niki Gulick (01:12):
I'm glad to be here and I'm looking forward to seeing what I just got myself into.
(Laughter)
Marilyn Moedinger (01:18):
Excellent. Well, let's start off with our five quick questions. We like to kind of establish some of the information about what you've already done, so let's do that. And since you've built two houses, you can answer for both.
When did you start your projects?
Niki Gulick (01:36):
So, the most recent project was July of ‘22, and the prior project would've been around like 2019, 2020.
Marilyn Moedinger (01:47):
Okay. Great. And then maybe for the most recent one, when did you move in? So, you started in 2022-
Niki Gulick (01:53):
It was about 18 months later.
Marilyn Moedinger (01:55):
Got it. Okay, and what type of projects are these? They're homes of some kind … tell us more about what kind of project it is.
Niki Gulick (02:03):
In our particular area of town, South Dayton, North Cincinnati, most of the new construction is semi-rural, so two plus acres. So, the types of projects that people are taking on and building tend to go with those types of landscapes.
My first one, I had a 40-acre farm, so we built like a modern farmhouse. But I like to think it wasn't like a trendy modern farmhouse. It was a classic modern farm-
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (02:36):
It was classic.
Marilyn Moedinger (02:37):
Good.
Niki Gulick (02:39):
And then this particular project was on six acres, and it's had like a modern mountain lodge theme.
Marilyn Moedinger (02:50):
Very cool. And we already know the answer to this question, but to share with our audience, did you use an architect?
Niki Gulick (02:57):
Yes, I did.
Marilyn Moedinger (02:59):
And she happens to be on this call, right (laughs)?
Niki Gulick (03:00):
And she happens to be here.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (03:04):
Yeah, Niki and I met – well, when I designed her first house, we met then, and became pretty good friends. And so, she graciously used me on her second house too.
Niki Gulick (03:19):
I am a repeat offender.
Sheri Scott (03:21):
Yes.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (03:23):
And then our last question to round out this quick rapid fire, just in a yes or no answer, are you glad that you did these projects?
Niki Gulick (03:33):
Yes.
Sheri Scott (03:34):
Great. Let's just focus on the house you're in now, I think. What made you decide to start this project? Like was there a catalyst or some kicking off point that you thought, “Okay, I'm ready to do this?”
Niki Gulick (03:51):
So, I don't know if my particular situation is going to apply to everyone, but I guess this goes to show that there are lots of factors that go into when should I start designing, when should I break ground? All of that.
At the particular time that I decided … I actually designed this house with a significant other that I was no longer with. So, the actual house itself is not exactly, if it were just Sheri and I sitting in a room, what I would've designed.
However, for whatever reason, I just felt like it was June, July and in Ohio, I didn't really want to break ground on a property with a basement in wintertime if I decided then was the right time. But I'm like you know what, rates are 3.25%; it's free money, why would I not?
And so, I did. And good thing I did because six months later, I would not have let myself with the rate at which it would've cost to borrow money for this particular project, because this was quite the undertaking. And like I said, it's 6,600 square feet, I do not need 6,600 square feet.
Originally, I would have designed a house without a basement, but we added one, but it was too late to go back and change things, like it was time to go. We already had the permits; we had everything ready. So, that's what made me do it when I did it.
Sheri Scott (05:23):
Yeah, that's interesting about adding the basement because that's in the 6,600 square feet. So, do you feel like even your main floor is too much?
Niki Gulick (05:39):
I don’t think it is too much; it's like very practical. Now, I'm a real estate agent, I could live out of my car. So, to have a great room this big that … and then you've got a kid and a dog and a boyfriend and you're all in a four-by-four space like 24/7, like do I really need this much house? No, not really.
But to put it in perspective, friends who were building across the street who got delayed, moved into my basement and I hardly ever saw them. A family of three lived in my basement while I lived upstairs for two months.
[Laughter]
Taylor Davis (06:18):
I love it.
Sheri Scott (06:19):
That's funny.
Marilyn Moedinger (06:20):
That's amazing (laughs).
Niki Gulick (06:22):
There's that.
Sheri Scott (06:23):
Can you tell us like how the design process went and what that was like?
Niki Gulick (06:28):
So, honestly, that is why I was super excited to work with Sheri again, because when I worked with her the first time, my husband and I at the time- and this whole designing houses with other people apparently is a theme now.
But we knew what we wanted, but we didn't know how to get this in this way. And so, I knew Sherri was great, but I didn't know her yet, so we went in. And she kind of just did it. And she did some things that like I didn't ask for or necessarily say was something I needed, but she made it all work and I liked it and I'm like, “Cool.” Like why did I spend so much time even trying to think about how I would've done this?
So, that's kind of how it went this time too. It was like, “Here's what I want, here's what he wants, like can you make something work?” And she's like, “Yeah, I can make it work. And also, here's a spiral stairwell that conveniently goes from your master closet to your basement. Here's a full three-story wall of windows because it looks super cool, you're going to love it.” And I did love it.
So, we didn't make a whole lot of changes. I think in both processes there might have been three meetings total to get what we wanted.
Taylor Davis (07:50):
I want to ask a question. You called yourself a repeat offender with Sheri. Do you think it made the process easier? Because you went from sort of different designs of different houses. Do you think the process was easier the second time around, because you had worked with Sheri before and y'all had already established a little rapport? Or was this house so different that it felt like starting a little bit from scratch?
Niki Gulick (08:10):
The process, start to finish, was totally different just because you have way more hands in the cookie jar than just Sheri. But the Sheri process was easier because I knew exactly what I was going to get when I got into it.
Sheri Scott (08:23):
The big question that we want everyone to answer for our listeners to hopefully get a better project than they might have: what do you know now that you wish you had known before you started?
Niki Gulick (08:39):
So, you don't know what you don't know till you know.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (08:46):
That's what we're trying to fix.
Taylor Davis (08:48):
I’m going to write that and put that over my office door. Like for everybody who comes to visit, that's what they need to know (laughs).
Niki Gulick (08:57):
I can't honestly say I wish I would've known this because there's zero chance that there are certain things that I would've known, I just would not have known. But I think if I were to say it in the easiest way possible – make sure that your builder has experience building exactly or beyond what you plan to build.
Like for example, we had a situation where it's like, “Hey, Niki you have X amount of gas orifices and the energy company is saying that you now need a commercial gas line, utility line, run back to your house. That's probably going to be an extra $15,000, just letting you know, unless you can think of any other ideas.”
Number one, why would I know of any of your options. Number two, $15,000 surprise, are you serious? And we probably just because this was like a utility thing, it was kind of one of those junctures in the process where it was like we need to figure this out so we can do it, so we can do the other things that need to be done after that.
So, it caused a delay for a month for them to come back and be like, “Oh no, we got it figured it out, we're good, cool. Thanks.” And it's like have you guys not done this before? When you have the plans, it says, “I have this amount, this number of fireplaces, this number of gas grills, this number of fire pits, why am I the one having to figure this out?”
So, again, I would've had no idea that different types of gas lines needed to be run for X amount of orifices. I depend on my contractor to know that stuff ahead of time, so they're giving me a proper bid at the onset rather than surprises on the backend.
Marilyn Moedinger (10:57):
Building on that question, how do you figure out if the builder … how do you interview a builder? What are you looking for? If I'm thinking about our audience right now saying, “That sounds really smart, but how do I know if my builder knows those things?” What kind of questions do you ask to figure that out?
Niki Gulick (11:15):
I think the real only way to be able … because a lot of these builders, honestly, you ask them questions and they act like they know it all, and they're salespeople and I don't blame them. And they probably, they know a lot, they know more than me.
But the only way is to say like, “Take me through some of your recent projects that match the scale of my project. And if the homeowner could also be there, that would be fantastic. And can you show me things that are similar to my project, and can you tell me about issues you ran into during these projects and how are we going to not run into them in mine?”
Marilyn Moedinger (11:58):
Yeah, that's great because ultimately, it's not whether you're going to run into issues because you are building something as complicated, but it's kind of how they react to it.
Sheri Scott (12:09):
I thought one of the points you made was very important in not only going through their past projects, but having the homeowner there. They can't tell you a lie in front of the homeowner.
And even better, is if the builder would just give you the homeowner's phone number to connect without them there at all because sometimes people, they don't want to hurt people's feelings or I don't know, just out of politeness, you might not get the whole story, but that's a great piece of advice.
Taylor Davis (12:47):
Did you have your builder selected previously? Had you worked with this builder before? How did you come to the decision process in the first place? I think that's helpful to see how people get to that point. How did you make your selection in the first place?
Niki Gulick (13:01):
So, as a real estate agent, I have been through numerous builders, model homes, existing homes, resale homes, et cetera. Met and spoke with a lot of them, maybe not necessarily to build a house for me, but just in general. But the builder that built my house is one that I had been working with for almost like a decade selling their model homes and things like that.
And they were also … I developed the neighborhood that I built this particular home in, and they were building a lot in my development. So, it just made sense and seemed logistically smart that if a bunch of other people are ordering lumber and materials from X companies, that it should make it easier and faster on my build too.
Taylor Davis (13:54):
Did it, out of curiosity? I mean, there's no way of knowing, I guess, but I'm just totally curious.
Niki Gulick (14:00):
So, no, but I think because they felt like they were doing me a favor, some of the smaller projects, their grass cut was coming in sooner. They finished them up sooner because it was easier to finish them up sooner than to deal with my monstrosity. So, and maybe that's not true, but that's what I saw.
Marilyn Moedinger (14:30):
Well, and in some ways what you're perceiving, and especially since you're in the industry, you know what clients perceive is almost even more important than the actual (laughs), what really happened. So, especially in an emotional process like buying or building or dealing with homes. It's at the top of the list.
Niki Gulick (14:51):
Yep.
Sheri Scott (14:52):
Do you think there were any design decisions you made or that we made that made construction harder or easier?
Niki Gulick (15:04):
No, but it was due to, like for example, the spiral stairwell. Well, my builder had no connections with custom spiral stairwell specialists, so I had to go find one and coordinate them and coordinate with, because it kind of connects into the flooring. So, it had to be coordinated with the flooring installation. And I was kind of the one that was stuck with that because I'm the one who found them.
So, in some facets, I was like my own project manager. But you hire someone to build your house so that they could build your house so that you can go do your job so you can pay to build the house.
Sheri Scott (15:50):
For the house, yes. (chuckles).
Taylor Davis (15:53):
Put very well.
Niki Gulick (15:52):
So, I had basically another job while building this house while I was trying to figure out my own life too.
Sheri Scott (16:05):
I think this is a good place … because Niki is a friend of mine, I can talk about this openly with her. We all do full-service architecture where we would help make all of those selections, make those connections, do the detailing that it takes to get that finished floor, even with that spiral stair and do all of those phone calls and technicalities.
But there's always a tradeoff. There's always a tradeoff of what you want to handle yourself and what you want help with. And like Niki said, you don't know until you know, and when you're in the middle of it, then sometimes I think it's hard to reach out and say, “Hey, can you help with this?” Because you're already so far down the line and then something else comes up.
And it is hard, it's much harder to go through a project like this even when you've built a house before without a third party involved, which the architect can play that third party as kind of not a mediator necessarily, because it's not even if there are problems, but another resource.
Marilyn Moedinger (17:22):
Niki, you said it so well where you said you had a second job while you were building your house, and turns out that second job is like that's our job. It's a whole other job, so it's a second job.
And like Sheri's saying that some people like yourself are willing to take on that extra work, and I'm dying to know with a third house potentially on the horizon, are you excited to dig in and take on that second job again? Are you thinking maybe you might want to take on less and Sheri takes on more? Or how does it feel looking at the third time?
Niki Gulick (18:01):
So, I don't know. It's kind of like when you have a kid and you're like I'm never doing this again, and then you forget and then you do it again.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (18:10):
You don't remember the pain (laughs).
Niki Gulick (18:14):
I think I planned to build something relatively (I say relatively) simple so that there are hopefully not lots of hoops to jump through to get to the finish line. I do agree though, like for me, it was just me building the house. I had nobody else that was ever popping by, stopping by, seeing what people were doing, checking on things other than the builder when they would do that.
So, this probably sounds stupid, but it's kind of hard if you do not have a partner when you build a house, and I'm not talking about the builder, because the builder's building multiple properties or the project manager assigned to your project is managing multiple projects.
If you don't have a partner, checks and balances basically, things will slip through the cracks. Because one, unless you're retired, I guess, and you can just get a lawn chair and some coronas for workers and some donuts.
Sheri Scott (19:23):
That's every builder's dream right there. Yeah (laughs).
Niki Gulick (19:28):
Yeah. And then I would probably be ran off.
Taylor Davis (19:31):
Yeah, exactly. They wouldn't want you anywhere near them.
Marilyn Moedinger (19:34):
Yeah. And by partner, I mean that could be anything. That could be-
Niki Gulick (19:40):
It could be a significant other, it could be your architect, it could be your designer, it could be a combination of all the above.
Marilyn Moedinger (19:48):
That's what I was getting at. Yeah.
Niki Gulick (19:49):
It's hard to do by yourself. But also, I'm in the industry, I know enough to be dangerous, not to go out and build a house by myself. So, perhaps for the person or like couple, family, that's two people that's building their first house or whatever kind of house – they need a partner too because they don't know what they don't know. They need somebody checks and balancing for them too.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:21):
Yeah, there's often a tried-and-true role for the architect, which is helping mediate between partners, significant others, who are trying to figure out how to solve the problem.
Niki Gulick (20:31):
Well, yeah, there's that, that's helpful.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:34):
That’s us. Sometimes it's nice to have the tie breaking vote, sometimes it's not nice, but you know (laughs).
Taylor Davis (20:39):
The role of the owner's rep, whoever plays that role, it's kind of a great tool in the toolbox of who's going to be on that team because it can help mediate a lot of the situation that you were just talking about.
Like it's about time, it's about money, it's about energy, it's about all of those things that kind of like can drain you when you're trying to do it all yourself. Having that owner's rep as part of the team, whomever that person is to sort of help mitigate that, I think is critical.
Niki Gulick (21:10):
Yeah. We had a situation, the builder calls and is like, “Hey, this stairwell, it's too long. It's going to run into where your entrance from the garage goes into the mud room. I don't know what we're going to do. You might have to rip it all out and do a spiral stairwell here or something.”
And I'm like, “Bro, I don't know what code is.” He's like, “Well, your architect drew it like this.” And I'm like, “Well, then it should fit, and if it doesn't, why don't you call her? Because I don't know what else to do.”
Sheri Scott (21:42):
We never got a call.
Niki Gulick (21:44):
Or maybe start it over here and make a landing and then go up, like I don't know. Well, eventually, I'm just like just make the stairs like as small as you can for code and see what happens, and it goes in and it's fine.
So, it's like well, if I would've had somebody that I just wasted, you take what you make per hour and how many hours I wasted thinking about something that I didn't even need to think about that I could have paid somebody for, I would still be sane and not have had to deal with that.
Taylor Davis (22:19):
And not still talking about it today.
Niki Gulick (22:22):
Correct.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (22:25):
Well, Niki, I think you've had a lot of great pieces of advice for people. Is there anything else that you wanted to bring up or share with us?
Niki Gulick (22:39):
I don't think so. I really like the question like are you happy that you … or would you do it again? Or are you happy that you did the project? And I think people that build houses are funny because once you've built one, you see things more so than somebody that moves into a resale house.
Like I would've done something different here or here or here. And then all of a sudden, two or three years later, you're listing your house and you're building again so you can do it better. It seems like most people that I see that build, they end up being, like I said, repeat offenders. So, I guess for folks like you guys, we're the gifts that keep on giving.
Sheri Scott (23:27):
That's right. That's good.
Taylor Davis (23:29):
I do have one last follow-up question, which is, there's no perfect project ever, but what's the one thing when you walk into your house that you love, and you are so excited about to use it or to see it or whatever that is? What's the one thing you love about your house right now?
Niki Gulick (23:48):
So, this doesn't carry a whole lot of weight because you can't see it, but I love my backyard, just the pool set up and everything, but I think if I really had to pinpoint it, Sheri did lots of windows in this house, and in my master bedroom, the corner is basically all windows, and it looks out over a pond with a fountain, and it's tree-lined and it's really beautiful.
So, whether it's like morning, evening, afternoon, it looks super nice anytime, and makes me glad that I did it.
Taylor Davis (24:30):
I like that. What a pretty thing to end on. Good job, Sheri.
[Laughter]
Niki Gulick (24:35):
Yeah. Good job, Sheri.
Sheri Scott (24:37):
Thank you, thank you. (Laughter)
(Transition)
With Niki, I think that was a really good eye-opening session that we had on both sides – both the homeowner side and the architect.
Taylor Davis (24:51):
All of the recognition on the backend about the strength of a team and the components of that team, and what value the different team members can bring to the table to make a project not necessarily easier, but like more manageable for all the people involved, I think is a really great tip for homeowners, is to think about how much they want to be involved, and how much of their time are they willing to give to the project at the very beginning because that sets up the whole contract process and everything else, how your drawings get done, all that stuff.
Marilyn Moedinger (25:30):
Yeah, and her insight about you don't know what you don't know, means that most of our clients, and I think we could all probably speak to this – homeowners are usually a little bit more sort of ambitious in what they think they can do or what they think they can handle, and what they think they have room for in their schedule, or to sit on Google every night figuring this stuff out, and reality quickly strikes.
And so, I think that she mentioned about things slipping through the cracks, and if you don't have a partner or whether that is a significant other or someone who's partnering with you on the project or an architect or whatever, then you have to be okay with things slipping through the cracks and you have to be okay having a full-time second job.
And my guess is that for her as a realtor, that's maybe a little bit easier for her to kind of slot that in just because maybe her schedule's a little bit more flexible, she's already in the industry and she knows some people. But I think for your average person, that may be surprising that it's a whole other separate job. And turns out that's why we have a job because it is a job that needs to be done.
Sheri Scott (26:43):
It is. And it's not only the time that it takes, but also the knowledge. Like you cannot learn everything you need to learn for a one-time project, it's ridiculous.
And our clients that come to us, they’re very successful. They have learned everything they need to learn to get to where they are. And then to take this on and think that they're going to lead this entire project, it baffles me sometimes, if I'm honest.
Taylor Davis (27:23):
We talk about at scale too, like these big projects, but like the same thing is true if it's your bathroom because your expectations are that you can do it, and it's only going to take two weeks and then the truck's going to roll away and you're going to have this fabulous new bathroom with all the right grout colors and nothing's ever going to stain. And your marble's pre-sealed and you don't ever have to worry about patina on your brass.
The truth is that it doesn't really matter the scale of the project – at least from my perspective, it's about what did all the different people at the table bring to the table, and how can they work together to make a more effective outcome?
And certainly, for a huge project that's over 6,000 square feet, but I think the same holds true for small renovation projects, whether they're kitchens or bathrooms too, is that you really have to think about how much time am I willing to commit to this to manage this my end.
Marilyn Moedinger (28:19):
And on top of that, it's about time, it's also about emotional energy. I think people really underestimate the emotional energy that it takes. You're constantly on point, the contractor's going to call you at any second with some disaster. And turns out we are trained to deal with that.
And as I'm telling my clients all the time, “The contractor's going to call me, not you, and then I'm going to handle nine out of the 10 calls, and then once a week I will bring you one to two decisions I need you to make, and I'm handling absolutely everything else. And you're running your life with your kids, with your spouse, with everything that you're doing with your job and all that kind of stuff.”
If there's one thing that I think is going to continue (I'm making a prediction here), that's going to come up in our conversations, it's that. That people don't realize until they've been through it just how intense of a process it is, and how much work there is to do on their end. They might be thinking, well, it's just the drawings, just build it, how hard can it be? And that's just not true.
Sheri Scott (29:27):
And I thought her advice about choosing a builder was spot on.
Marilyn Moedinger (29:31):
Yes.
Taylor Davis (29:32):
Oh yeah, that was really good.
Marilyn Moedinger (29:33):
That was great.
Sheri Scott (29:34):
Yeah, that was good. And I would say to choose your architect too. We have a great business with people coming to us that have hired an architect, but they just hired a generalist or a commercial architect. And there is a difference for someone that has spent their career doing residential architecture, there's a difference there.
And you should ask because the three of us can't be everyone's architect, so we can tell people here, interview them, find out what they've done, make sure they've done the scale of project that you're looking for.
Marilyn Moedinger (30:13):
Yeah, and I think the crucial little thing I just want to underline from what she said about interviewing contractors, was I think one of you guys pointed out also to say, interview the homeowner on their own, get the phone number, have that as a reference point. And by the way, if the builder isn't willing to give you three or four phone numbers and say, “Here are three or four people, call them …”
Taylor Davis (30:36):
That’s a red flag. There should be a two-page list of people that they are willing to have you talk to because they are so excited about their experience.
Marilyn Moedinger (30:47):
Yeah. And it's important. I always tell my clients, call them, don't just email because you hear people's tone of voice. You hear someone who is really happy with their builder. And by the way, that doesn't mean everything was perfect, but it means how they solved the problems.
Taylor Davis (31:03):
I'll throw a tip out there, which we encourage our clients not to bid projects, to not select contractors based on price. We encourage our clients to do it with an RFQ process so that they get a proposal from a contractor that has nothing to do with the cost of the project, it has to do with how they handle the project.
Find the things that they liked, what were things that were important to you, do you want your contractor to feed your dog while you're gone? Little things that make a big difference in the way your perception of your experience goes in the long run. And I think having that RFQ include references and what questions do you want them to have.
And so, that people have to get … you get a good sense of the response from the contractor based on those RFQs. And we've had lots of great contractors come through with responses that were really amazing, and people were really excited to work with them because of the thought and the energy they put into.
Not the pricing, but if they'll put it into that initial question session, like what are the few things we want to talk about first – you can imagine that they're going to bring that skillset to all of your pricing and all of their construction down the road. It's a really good indicator of how a project's going to go.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:14):
That's great advice, Taylor.
Sheri Scott (32:16):
Yeah. Another great conversation. Thanks, you guys.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:19):
And thanks for joining us on Home: The Second Story. If you enjoyed today's conversation, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. For more inspiring homeowners stories and tips, we'll see you next time.
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Jon Gay (32:32):
Thanks for listening to Home: The Second Story Podcast. Feel free to share this episode with a friend. Contact information for all three of our architects are in our show notes. And don't miss future episodes.
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