Sometimes, a homeowner wants to use a construction method that is not common in their area. This could mean SIP construction, ICF, modular, masonry, post and beam, or another system outside of standard stick framing. The point is not to compare every building technology or decide which one is best. The real issue is how to know whether a different construction type makes sense for your project.
The first step is building the right team. Most residential construction in the United States is stick framing, so anything outside of that requires more care. The builder needs direct experience with the system. Otherwise, the homeowner may end up paying for the builder’s learning curve, or worse, paying for panic pricing because the builder does not know what problems may come up. The architect or designer should also understand the system, but they can often bring in a consultant, structural engineer, or experienced partner. For the builder, hands-on experience matters even more.
It also helps to bring the builder in early. When a builder knows the construction system, they can work with the architect during pre-construction and help solve details before the permit set is complete. That collaboration helps avoid surprises later. It is a red flag when someone does not want the architect and builder talking early.
A non-traditional system can also raise questions at the building department. The code is often written around standard stick framing, especially in residential construction. That means the team may need to explain how the project meets the code through a different method. This is often called an alternate compliance path. It can mean more drawings, more explanation, and more early conversations with officials.
Cost and energy performance need to be studied early. Many homeowners ask about SIP or ICF because they want better energy performance. That can be a good goal, but the financial return is not always simple. In some places, like Massachusetts, strict energy codes make high-performance construction more normal. In other places, like Ohio, the code environment may be different. Climate, local code, construction norms, storms, snow, earthquakes, and other factors all matter.
The main takeaway is to know your priorities before choosing an alternative construction method. If the goal is lower energy bills, run the numbers early. If the goal is stewardship, durability, comfort, or a specific construction value, name that clearly. Homeowners do not need to arrive with the answer. They need to bring their goals, questions, and priorities so the right team can help them make a smart decision.
(00:00) Intro
(00:14) Considering a different construction technology
(01:29) Why the right team matters
(03:30) The risk of learning curves and panic pricing
(03:55) Why designers need system knowledge too
(05:20) Partnering with experienced consultants
(06:01) Builder experience matters most
(07:33) Building department red flags
(08:29) Talking with officials before permit submission
(12:29) SIP and ICF questions around energy savings
(14:23) How Massachusetts and Ohio differ on energy codes
(16:02) Rethinking return on investment
(18:14) Know your real priorities
(20:36) How a HERS rater can help
Speakers: Marilyn Moedinger & Sheri Scott
Sheri Scott (00:00):
Hi, and welcome to a snack-sized episode of Home: The Second Story.I'm Sheri Scott with Springhouse Architects in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:08):
And I'm Marilyn Moedinger with Runcible Studios out of Lancaster, Pennsylvania and Boston, Massachusetts.
Sheri Scott (00:14):
Alright, today we want to talk about if you are considering a construction project and you are thinking about doing kind of a different building technology than what is traditional around you. There are some pitfalls and red flags and different implications. So, we just want to help you maybe get a better idea of where to start if you're considering that.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:44):
We also want to say what we're not going to go into, which is a deep dive into all these different technologies. So, I think Sheri, you and I have both worked on projects with any number of these different technologies. We’ve built SIP homes, we’ve built ICF homes, we've built modular homes or masonry or whatever. We built all these.This is not a comparison of which system is best right here. We can say that for another day, that could be fun.
But what we're talking about today is if you are interested in this, how do you evaluate whether it's a good idea or that kind of thing. So, I think the first thing when we were kind of talking about this topic offline, the first thing that springs to mind is you need to have a team who's used to working with that technology.
Sheri Scott (01:29):
That's the main point I would share. If someone were to call me on a discovery call, I would ask them … in fact, I just had a meeting with a client that is considering post and beam construction, which is a dying art form. And there are specific companies now that produce a package and do all of the structural considerations.That's one way to go. Or you can pull together your own team.
But very specifically, I told this potential client we would need to find the right team to do that, because it is a smaller pool when you're doing a different kind of different type of construction. You really want to find someone that has done it before, that can lead you through it, that knows the pitfalls before they come.
Marilyn Moedinger (02:25):
That's right. And I guess we should say as like a baseline here: most residential construction in the United States, the vast majority is stick frame. That's what it is.So, that's two by sixes, two by fours. When you see a house getting built, it's stick framing. That is unique in the world, by the way, most of the world uses masonry and concrete. But we here in the US (plentiful for us), we use stick framing.
So, if you're doing anything other than traditional stick framing or the stick framing that everybody's used to doing, then you'll need to kind of tune in to this conversation.So, pulse and beam, for example, used to be how a lot of construction was done here in the US. It's not that way anymore.
And you can't just ask any old framing crew to do pulse and beam; they're not going to know how to do it. You could ask them and they could say yes, and then you're going to be paying for them to learn how to do it. And that's not what we want to do (laughs).
Sheri Scott (03:30):
Well, the other thing you end up paying for, and actually, I feel like if you know ahead of time that you're paying for a learning curve, that's one thing. But what I don't want to pay for is someone panic pricing, like I'm going to put a big price on this because I don't know what's going to come up.I don't know the problems I'm going to face, and so I'll put a big price tag on it.
Marilyn Moedinger (03:55):
Exactly. Or they don't have the trained crew or the resources or whatever. So, that's the builder.But also, you want a designer who knows what they're doing with these technologies, because if you don't, then you're paying for their learning curve, and you might not get a design that works really well with that construction type.
I've built with SIPs before, I've built with ICFs, I've built all these different panelized, modular, all these things.And each of these systems has a different sort of set of design rules around it. Some of them like SIPs are really flexible, like there's not like crazy things you have to learn.
So, I wouldn't say that if you wanted to build a SIP house, which is structural insulated panels — by the way, it's not a SIP panel house, that's a structural insulated panel-panel house.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (04:46):
Pet peeve there, Marilyn (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (04:52):
Yes. It's a SIP house or SIP building, whatever, SIP construction. They're pretty flexible so it's not like you would have to find a SIP expert architect to design your house with SIPs.But it's better to have someone who's done it before, it's better to have someone who has the sort of horsepower in their design studio to take on a new technology that's new to them, and not every architect or designer is up for that (laughs).
Sheri Scott (05:20):
I think that's true. What we do in our practice, we have done SIP buildings before and what we do every time, because I don't feel super confident in it, is we partner with another designer that does have that experience, and/or a structural engineer.
Just somebody you can partner with, like you want to hire somebody that you like their design aesthetic and you get along with them personally, and if they don't have a broad depth of that experience, ask them if they can get it, ask them if they can partner with somebody.
Marilyn Moedinger (06:01):
Yes. And it's not the end of the world. And I think that's the difference between when you're assembling your team for a non-traditional construction type project, the builder, in my opinion, and I think we're in agreement here — the builder having expertise in that construction type matters a lot more than the architect and designer.
Sheri Scott (06:22):
Agreed.
Marilyn Moedinger (06:23):
Because the architect and designer can hire a consultant or partner or whatever, but the builder, you want them to come to the site having built many of these or several of these before.
Sheri Scott (06:35):
Yes, I agree.
Marilyn Moedinger (06:36):
The other thing that's good about that is when you identify and work with a builder who is a SIP expert or ICF expert or a masonry expert, whatever, and you hire them early — the owner should hire them early, that's because then they can do pre-construction services with the architect. And the architect can say, “Hey, I'm thinking here's some details, here's some things I'm kind of working out.”
The contractor can weigh in and say, “Yes, I totally see what you're trying to do.Here's how I would do it in SIPs or here's how I would whatever.” And that partnership and that collaboration is so great. Like you don't want to wait until the end and then foist something upon the builder.You want to collaborate early.And good architects and good builders both want that.
Sheri Scott (07:26):
They want it.
Marilyn Moedinger (07:26):
So, red flag if somebody is like, “Well, I don't want to talk to them or I don't want that,” then run.
Sheri Scott (07:33):
Or we'll tell them how to do it.
Marilyn Moedinger (07:34):
Or we'll tell them. Yes, run away from that. So, assemble your team, that's the most important thing. Let's talk about some of the other kind of tricky parts about using something that's out of the norm, that's not stick framing.
So, for instance, you might run into some raised eyebrows at the building department.So, when you go to hand in your permit drawings, it's not the same old thing that they're used to. So, you may have to have drawings that are a little bit more extensive, your team, your architects and builder may go in and meet with the building department and explain a little bit.
Just sit down and say, “Let's go over these drawings.I know this is something that you guys don't see a lot or whatever,” but just keeping that open line of communication with the building department. Sometimes, we've even gone to the building department early before we're submitting and just say, “Hey, we're …”
Sheri Scott (08:29):
Yes, that's what I was just going to say. Like don't throw it at them cold.Let's be in this together and figure it out.
Marilyn Moedinger (08:38):
Yep. Yeah, again, with collaboration, bringing people in early so that then when you go with the building permit application and they see the drawings, they're like, “Oh, yeah, that's Sheri and her team, we've already talked to them twice, we understand.”
Sheri Scott (08:53):
They know what we're looking for.
Marilyn Moedinger (08:54):
Yes, exactly.
Sheri Scott (08:56):
And we want that as the architect because we don't want to draw unnecessary details — I don't want to say unnecessary details, but chasing our tail (chuckles).Like we end up thinking, oh, they probably want to see this, and they probably want to see that. When the builder isn't requesting it, they don't need those details because they've done it 10 times.
It's always a balancing act of how big your drawing set is because you cannot detail every single thing. But if you can sit down with them and say, “What are you concerned about? What are the concerns for zoning, for the building department, for structural?What are you concerned about so I can address those.”
Marilyn Moedinger (09:43):
And let's talk about that too, because the building code is written with sort of more common construction techniques in mind. And especially residential code, which is very heavily weighted towards … so, in the US, there are two basic categories of building code. One is residential or one and two family, and one is called commercial.
Everyone calls it commercial, but it still does if you are building three, like a home with three residences in it, or an apartment building or something like that.That's still residential but that's in the commercial code. So, in the commercial code, there's a lot more room for different construction types because there's steel construction and there's concrete and there's all these different things.
In the residential code, it's much more weighted towards stick framing because that's what the vast majority of homes are built from. So, things like fire separation distance or materials, or how insulation works, or all these kinds of things are weighted towards stick framing.
And when you come in with a different system, you might have to present what's called an alternate compliance path, which is just a fancy way of saying we meet the requirements here, like we see that you guys are requiring R-20 in the walls, which is a rating of insulation value — we see that you're requiring R-20, we are achieving it in this way that is different than the sort of norm, and we're going to explain it.
We're going to show a little detail or we're going to explain how we're doing it. And we're providing an alternate compliance path. We're giving them, as one of my mentors said, something to hang their hat on, like here you go, we're meeting the letter of the law, and here's how we're doing it.
And again, you are going to run into more of those things, which could mean that design and planning is more extensive in a non-traditional form of construction because you have to do a little bit more work.
Sheri Scott (11:53):
Right, right. That's a good point. And that will come out in a proposal from an architect.So, you need to share with your architect, designer, builder, what construction type you want to do if you want to do something alternative. So, how do you decide?Most of what I've done, people will bring to me are SIP — I was just going to say SIP panels (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (12:20):
Well, we're going to beep it out. We'll just be like, if someone says SIP panel, we're going to be like, eh [beep].
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (12:29)
And ICF. So, those are the two. We get questions about that the most in terms of energy efficiency.And I am not an expert at figuring out that energy efficiency and the dollars that it is going to cost you versus dollars it's going to save you. And I do implore you to find an expert or a consultant and the architect can bring in that consultant to actually run those numbers.
Because we have sat across the table and actually designed several buildings that are beautiful, highly energy efficient, and at the end of the day, the client ends up paying us to redesign the house in traditional construction because it just ends up not making sense financially.
So, if your bottom line is financial and you want to do this alternative construction to save dollars on energy costs, do those calculations early. And you might want to design a house and figure that out,but just do it early. Don't get through construction documents and get through all of zoning and code enforcement, and then figure out the cost, what it's going to cost you, because it is costly.
Now, I have plenty of clients that that is not their sole motivation. They want to save energy because it's good, a good thing to do. They feel like being good stewards of the planet, and they're seeing their role in that as saving energy and that's amazing. Just kind of know your priority and why you're going into this and why you are looking at an alternative path.
Marilyn Moedinger (14:23):
Right. And I would say that the story in Massachusetts is quite different because our energy codes are so stringent that traditional construction and some of these other methods are neck and neck in terms of what you have to do to get traditional construction to meet the stringent energy codes that we have.
Sheri Scott (14:43):
And everyone is going there. In Ohio, we're behind, which a lot of people like, but they don't (chuckles).
Marilyn Moedinger (14:51):
Let's underline that. It's coming for everybody. It's already written.So, building codes are written every three years, by the way, and they're adopted sort of a few years after that for most people.
Sheri Scott (15:04):
And haphazardly, honestly.
Marilyn Moedinger (15:06):
And haphazardly. So, you might in your state, and they're done by state, and then also by local jurisdiction, and you might be on 2018 codes whereas Massachusetts is on whatever, like the most recent thing.
And then in Massachusetts, there's stretch codes, there's additional requirements that are per community, and there's state mandates and there's local mandates, and there's all this other stuff and it changes. And sometimes like it did about two years ago, it changed kind of overnight. And one day, we could do one thing and the next day we couldn't, and everybody had to redraw their projects from scratch. And that was crazy.
And so, just to say that navigating all of that is, again, one of our constant themes where architects are really helpful because a lot of times, these alternate systems are pushed by manufacturers. They're like whether it's a penalized system or whatever, and they're pushed by the manufacturer, but they may not understand the subtleties of what your local jurisdiction requires.
So, if we talk about the cost, so most people say, “Well, I don't want to spend an extra hundred thousand dollars on my house because I'm only going to save two thousand dollars a year on energy costs, so then I'll it'll take me a million years to …” well, not that many, but whatever the math, to pay it back.
Well, that's a very false way to understand return on investment, and we don't have time to get into the math right now. But that's actually an incorrect and very narrow way to understand “payback.”Do you ask your fancy countertops to pay you back? No. Why do we look at “energy efficiency” — I'm putting that in quotes because that's actually not the right terminology.
Okay, I'm putting on my thermodynamics hat, I'll take it off now. That was just really quick. But the point is that these questions are really complicated and we don't want to be making them just because the manufacturer pushed us.
The other thing to consider is your climate. So, if you're building in Massachusetts or Cincinnati or Tampa or LA or Seattle or Chicago, you're going to have very different reasons for doing things. You're going to have different building norms, you're going to have like if I show up in the southeast and talk about basements, everyone's going to be like, “What?!” If I'm working in New England and I'm not putting in a cellar, then everyone's going to be like, “What are you even doing?”
So, understanding that these systems might be better or worse for different climates is not just about energy efficiency, it's also about do you get hurricanes, wind, snow, earthquakes, like all these kinds of things, and different technologies work better or worse for these different places.
And again, that's where an architect can come in and help you make those decisions and help walk you through all that. The energy efficiency conversation is super complicated, but I went on a rabbit hole there, but the point is talk about it early.I think that's the big point.
Sheri Scott (18:14):
Yeah, talk about it early. Know your priorities, like why are you doing it?What your honest priorities are and why you're doing it because that will help you make the decisions because you're going to have a lot of decisions to make. And when it comes down to the go or no go, you're going to want to know, you're going to want to have something to measure against.
Marilyn Moedinger (18:35):
That's right. And I think it all ultimately comes down to getting the people around you who can help you make an educated decision. And whenever I'm evaluating who are the people who I can trust to help me make a decision, I'm going to want someone who doesn't have skin in the game.
Like if I'm talking to a SIP manufacturer, they're going to be (and not in a bad way) very excited about their product and they're going to be like, “This is what you should do.”
Sheri Scott (19:03):
This is the best thing since sliced bread.
Marilyn Moedinger (19:05):
This is the best thing ever. An architect will be neutral on it and should be neutral on it, and give you advice based on that neutrality. A builder, maybe. So, some builders work with certain systems and that's what they do.And we find that all the time in the HVAC world, the subs are very connected to a certain brand.
Sheri Scott (19:30):
Yes, uh-huh.
Marilyn Moedinger (19:31):
And they won't look at anything else. So, we don't want that. We want someone for our homeowners who are impartial to help them make that decision.And it's not going to be the person who's selling you the thing.It's going to be the person who's going to design it no matter what system you pick.
Sheri Scott (19:51):
It's probably a team of people.
Marilyn Moedinger (19:53):
Yes, 100%.
Sheri Scott (19:54):
Especially, well, around us, I will say not a lot of people do alternative construction types because we're a custom architect, we probably get more inquiries disproportionate to how many projects actually happen around here.
But for us, anyway, it would always be a team because I don't spend every day boning up on all of these things. And I couldn't run a business — well, I guess I could run a business specializing and niching down, but I don't.I do residential in general and try to help people through what they ask me for. So, I would assemble a team depending on what you ask for.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:36):
So, in Massachusetts, we're required to have what's called a HERS rater on every single project. That is considered an extra thing in most other states, but it's required in Massachusetts. And one of the best parts about having that as a requirement is that that person is a resource for the project.
So, I have asked our HERS rater, who I use the same one on all our projects, and I say things like, “Hey, we're considering this method or this thing or this weirdo thing, whatever. Do you think in your experience …” because he does thousands of projects, we don't do thousands. He's doing tons and tons of projects.
And I'll say, “What do you think about this jurisdiction? Are they going to be up for this? Are they going to go for it?”And he can provide that sort of wisdom. He can't make any guarantees, of course. But he can say, “Yeah, you know what,I've seen them approve that, they're fine with that right now. Or the last five projects who did that, I really saw that they were really cracking down on that or they weren't okay with it.”
So, that team aspect is also helpful in some of the sort of soft skills areas, too, not just the like hard technical information. So, yeah, I mean, doing alternative technologies is really fun. I think both of us as custom architects enjoy learning about new things and helping our clients, working with our clients to do new things.
There are just considerations, but that's okay. Here's one of our themes: you don't have to come with the answer, just come to us with all your thoughts and we'll help you get there.
So, yeah. So yeah.Anyway, thank you for joining us today on Home: The Second Story for a quick snack. If you have questions for us or a topic you'd like us to cover, or if you're interested in being a guest, reach out at admin@htsspodcast.com, and follow us on Instagram. We'll see you next time.
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