In this mailbag episode of Home: The Second Story, we answer three common questions about residential construction and renovation. We start with what happens when homeowners feel like they are managing the builder instead of the builder managing the project. We then talk about whether it is realistic to live in a house during a major renovation. Finally, we cover the early design decisions that can have the biggest impact on construction cost.
We first respond to a homeowner who feels like building a house has become a second full time job. Communication is slow, decisions happen at the last minute, and trades sometimes arrive without the information they need. The important point is that the coordination work always exists. The homeowner, builder, architect, or someone else has to do it. If nobody is responsible for that work, problems follow. A strong team can prevent much of this. Homeowners should also interview the actual project manager who will manage their job, not only the owner of the construction company.
If a project is already going badly, an owner's representative or architect can sometimes step in to help manage communication and decisions. Firing a builder is possible, but it is usually a last resort because replacing a contractor in the middle of construction creates major financial and liability complications. Homeowners should document everything, hold regular meetings, understand their contract and state laws, review payment requests carefully, and avoid allowing the contractor to get too far ahead financially. These things may not seem like your job, but they are crucial.
Our second question is whether homeowners should remain in their house during a major renovation. Our preference is clear. If moving out is at all possible, move out. Living through construction slows the project because crews have to work around the family, reconnect utilities, manage dust barriers, limit working hours, and protect occupied areas. It can also be emotionally exhausting to watch your house being demolished and rebuilt. A temporary rental may seem expensive, but it can cost less than the additional time and inefficiency created by living on site. We also recommend finding housing with flexibility in case construction runs longer than expected. (It usually does.)
We finish with the early decisions that affect budget most. Site selection can have an enormous impact. Long driveways, difficult terrain, utility extensions, limited construction access, and complicated urban sites can add substantial costs before finishes are even considered. Size matters, but different square footage has different costs. Kitchens and bathrooms are usually more expensive than open living areas. Structural complexity, foundation shape, HVAC planning, window systems, and architectural style also matter. Good design means spending money where it has the most value. Homeowners should establish priorities early, maintain a contingency, and resist increasing the budget every time a more expensive finish catches their attention.
(00:00) Intro
(00:19) Not All Builders Suck
(01:11) When Building a House Becomes a Second Full Time Job
(06:12) Interview the Project Manager, Not Just the Company Owner
(07:24) What to Do When a Construction Project Is Already Going Wrong
(09:24) Document Everything During a Troubled Project
(12:21) Why Regular Construction Meetings Matter
(16:08) Can You Live in the House During a Renovation?
(19:01) Contractors, Kids, Dogs, and Limited Work Hours
(22:08) Why a Temporary Rental Can Actually Save Money
(27:01) Renovating Before Moving In and Other Alternatives
(29:57) Which Early Decisions Affect Construction Cost the Most?
(31:39) Driveways, Utilities, Style, and Square Footage
(33:36) Infrastructure Costs Are Not Included in Simple Cost Per Square Foot Estimates
(34:34) Difficult Urban Sites and Construction Access
(38:56) Structural Design Decisions That Save Money
(41:17) Spend Money Where the Design Really Benefits
(45:13) Protect the Budget Early and Maintain a Contingency
(46:06) Decide Whether an Upgrade Really Adds Value
(46:33) Closing Thoughts
Marilyn Moedinger (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to a mailbag episode of Home: The Second Story. I'm Marilyn Moedinger from Runcible Studios in Boston, Massachusetts and Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
Sheri Scott (00:11):
And I'm Sheri Scott with Springhouse Architects in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:14):
Alright, let's dive right in. What's our first question today, Sheri? What do we got?
Sheri Scott (00:19):
So, our first question, so I'm on Reddit and there's the home building subreddit and this person actually just today posted, and I thought we'd read it and talk about it because seems very common. This writer says, "Do all builders just suck or is this really what building a house is like?"Yeah, great. A strong start.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:47):
A strong start. Yeah, and I feel like we should start off by saying no (laughs), they don't all suck and we are also builder friendly around here. We may be two architects — I used to be a builder, whatever, but the good builders will tell you that there's bad ones out there. So, I just want to start off by saying that I guess.
Sheri Scott (01:11):
Yep, I agree. Totally agree with that. So, they go on, I won't read the entire thing, but this is their second build, they've built before, so they had the same experience both times.They feel like I'm constantly managing the project manager: "Communication is slow. I have to follow up on unanswered questions.Decisions seem to come up at the last second." That does make me crazy about some of our projects too.
"Trades show up and I'm finding out things weren't communicated to them.I'm catching details that were already discussed or documented before they get installed incorrectly. There have been multiple times where it feels like things are just flying by the seat of their pants." So, that's really the gist of it.
He goes on to say he feels like he has a second full-time job, and we've talked about that before on here. And the bottom line is that is the work that has to be done in building a house or doing a renovation.
All of that coordination work, all of the communication, all of the organization, all of the decisions, that all has to be done. And if your builder and or team isn't doing it, then you're doing it. And it's a full-time job, and you're paying for it one way or another.
Marilyn Moedinger (02:38):
I mean, the way I say it, similar, slightly different, is just to say the work exists whether you do it, your builder does it, your architect or no one does it. If no one does the work, then this is what will happen, the story he's describing.
Sheri Scott (02:56):
So, do you think it's always money, though? Is it always like, "Oh, well, I'm not paying my builder that much, and so they can't do that much work, or I cut out the architect, so they're not doing that work?" I mean, I hate to say the answer is money.
Marilyn Moedinger (03:15):
Well, I mean, I think it partially is. I think if you are just paying for plans and you're not paying for architectural services (because there's a difference), then yeah, if you need more services, then you should pay for more services.
I think a lot of times people completely underestimate how much work there is to do.And there are builders who are resistant to having architects around because it means that someone who knows what they're doing is checking up on them.
And I think that's a sign — we've talked about how to find a builder, how to interview a builder.To me, that's one of the red flags. If you say, "Hey, builder, have you worked with architects before?" And they're like, "I hate architects. They always just get in my way."
Well, they're getting in the way of the builder being able to do whatever they want and tell whatever story they want. So, good builders will say, "I don't take a job unless there's an architect."That's what good builders say.
I mean, this person didn't ask how to prevent the situation, but I think that's implicit in the question, like how do you prevent this? So, yeah, I think it does come down to money a little bit.You have to pay for someone to do the work.
Sheri Scott (04:37):
I agree. And that was my answer on Reddit. I just said, "Unfortunately, sometimes it is just money and the team that you assemble."So, it sounds like this guy doesn't have a team. He has plans and he didn't say where he got the plans or how he worked through that, but he does say custom/semi-custom, and that's fine.
But if you're doing semi-custom, typically, you can rely on the fact that someone has done a lot of those decisions and a lot of that coordination, and that's why it's semi-custom because a lot of that work is done already through previous builds.
And so, you get that work already completed and coordinated, and then it's an easier build. But then if you're trying to go custom with a semi-custom kind of mindset or budget, that's where maybe you get into trouble and don't have all the coordination.
Marilyn Moedinger (05:35):
Absolutely. And I think the other thing to keep in mind here is that being a builder and being a designer are two different jobs. They are, and I can say that as someone who was a builder in a past life, like it's totally different training, it's totally different skills. It's a different type of communication.
And asking your builder to perform the job of an architect is like asking your architect to perform the job of a builder. You can, there are design build companies that can do both, but most don't and most can't. Even the ones that say they're design build don't really. They skimp on the design and they don't understand.
So, I think another thing to think about here is that there was a lot in there about difficulty of communication with the project manager. So, one of my favorite things to advise people when they're interviewing a builder is: you have to interview the project manager who's going to be on your project.
So, a lot of times, people meet the owner of the builder of the contracting company they meet and that guy's great.There's a reason why that guy or gal has been successful in what they do, but they're not the ones managing your project.
So, you need to interview the person managing your project. You need to say when you're interviewing builders, "Will you be managing my project or who will be managing my project?I would like to meet with them."And a good builder will say, "Absolutely, yes, you can meet the project manager, blah, blah, blah," because that person needs to be a good communicator with you.
Sheri Scott (07:24):
So, yes, you can do all those things. And there is the possibility that they pass all of those tests and yet it's still a disaster. So, if you're in this position and you have a long way to go in your project and you're not willing to just kind of make it through, muddle your way through, what are some things that people can do?
I've not been involved in a project like this, but I know some people have hired an owner's rep to come in. Sometimes that's an architect that offers those services. Other people are just straight owners' reps.
They used to be in the construction industry and they can come in and kind of be an advocate and a liaison with you to help with the communication, to help speaking the same language, to help just kind of bring in somebody that has some knowledge that can maybe help you get through to some of those.
Marilyn Moedinger (08:30):
That's absolutely good advice. We have done that. We also provide consulting to help people figure out what to do.And if they're in the middle of a project and they give me a call and they're like, "Yeah, we know we should have interviewed the project manager. We know we should have done all that stuff, or we did, and it still ended up this way.What are we going to do?"
And so, we will help people game plan: What's the best solution here?Sometimes it's an owner's rep. I've had projects where the builder was let go. That is very, very, very difficult.Very, very difficult. Last resort. Absolute last resort.
Because there's so much liability. A new builder doesn't want to come on and take that on because now they're liable for all, whatever the other guy did. So, there's a lot of complications there and the bad builders know that. They know that firing them is really difficult.
Sheri Scott (09:23):
Yeah. And you’ll never unravel all of the money.
Marilyn Moedinger (09:24):
Nope, you never will. You never will. And this is why it's boring to say, yes, we can talk about what to do once you're in it, but the absolute best way to do this is to not get in that situation in the first place. Have a strong contract and all that kind of stuff.So, I can't help but keep pointing in that direction.
But yeah, if you're in the middle of it, some other things to do if you're in the middle of it, write everything down.So, if it already feels like a full-time job, treat it like a full-time job. Take minutes at every meeting. Respond to every email.Do not text, do not phone call, follow up with everything in writing.
Because you have to prepare that this might continue to get worse and there's a point at which when you're in sort of crisis management where you have to decide, do I care about being right or do I care about getting this job done and moving on?
And is it right that the owner would have to take minutes and take a second full-time job? Well, no, but we got to get this job done and move on, and then we can pick up the pieces and see if there's whatever to be done. The other thing to do is to be really, really careful about paying.
So, your only leverage as an owner is paying invoices.So, you look at your contract, that's the first thing we always say. Look at your contract, the second thing we always say, understand your state laws because there are different rules in different states about what you can and can't do as someone who's hired a general contractor. And there's certain things a general contractor can and can't do in each state.
So, all of that being said, your only leverage is the dollars.And it's sometimes the only thing that someone will listen to, that a builder will listen to. If they get ahead of you and you're 50% done with a project, but they have 90% of your money, you are not going to get any more.
Sheri Scott (11:20):
No, it's over. It is over.
Marilyn Moedinger (11:22):
Because they have taken your money to pay for another project, so-
Sheri Scott (11:26):
And that starts early. Like that starts from the very first draw request. You need to review those; you need to make sure that any materials you're paying for are stored on site. And again, this is something that we regularly do as architects and require lien waivers from the subs, and we do that on projects that we do construction administration with is lien waivers from the subs.
Most projects that I've seen come with a lien waiver from the builder that goes to the bank. So, the bank requires the builder to say, "Yes, I've paid everyone." But you as the homeowner, you don't know if that's true or not, especially if things have degraded, and so you want the lien waiver directly from the sub.
I feel like we're going down the road of worst-case scenario. Most projects are just like, "This is a pain in the ass.Why am I having to talk to all these people?" And I think as soon as you're feeling that, like communication is getting lost, another thing I recommend is that you schedule regular meetings whether something's coming up or not.
The person on Reddit, they're probably not having regular meetings, they're just getting called when decisions have to be made and things like that. So, every Tuesday at four, you guys meet on the site with the contractor. Talk about what was done last week, what's coming up next week, what decisions are coming up.
And like Marilyn said, take minutes, take notes, document everything because now it's your job. It just is and that has to be done. And that's not because your builder is bad, that work has to be done.
Now, maybe your builder kind of sucks because they're not doing that work, that should be on their side to be doing. But it's work that needs to be done. And so unfortunately, you're just stuck doing it to get out of it and get in your home.
Marilyn Moedinger (13:41):
Yes. And if you're unwilling to hire the person who's supposed to be doing most of it, AKA, the architect, then I'm sort of like on one level, I'm kind of like, well, you didn't hire the person who's supposed to do this, and now you're wondering why the wheels are coming off.
Sheri Scott (13:55):
But people don't know that, Marilyn.
Marilyn Moedinger (13:57):
People don't know that, except that I have my broken record. So, I'm like hire an architect, hire an architect, hire an architect. So, I totally get that, person gets in the situation they didn't know, and now, that's the whole premise of this podcast. Is to take the wisdom from people who've been through these horrible situations and they say, "Don't do what I did. I've learned my lesson.Do this."
So, I think there's just something that still holds people back from doing it. And I get that the money seems like a lot to spend, but if you are doing a custom home, you need someone else with you.
Sheri Scott (14:39):
You really do.
Marilyn Moedinger (14:40):
I'll also say as like a closing thought on this question, as we move to our next one here, watch out who you're getting advice from, which is kind of funny since I'm sitting here giving advice and we're sitting here giving advice. But watch out who that advice is coming from and what their motivation is.
For example, if you seek legal advice, make sure you're getting legal advice from someone who has experience in this realm, not someone who doesn't know anything about it. If you're taking advice from the builder, who's the one who's messing things up, that's not going to help you. So, you need to take advice from people who actually know, and you have to be ready to maybe hear some hard truths, some things that you don't exactly want to hear.
But it is possible to turn projects around. And sometimes, with proper communication, the builders, they can they can still do it. But not every builder is bad and terrible. I just also want to end with that too.
Sheri Scott (15:43):
Start and end with that.
Marilyn Moedinger (15:44):
We work with some fantastic builders who would never leave their clients in the lurch.
Sheri Scott (15:49):
And they say that most of the builders are like, "Okay who's going to be your team?" And they will bring a lot of really good builders if clients refuse to bring the architect in, or don't have an architect, they will bring in a designer themselves, too.
Marilyn Moedinger (16:08):
And they’ll charge for it.So, you can either pay for it one way or pay for it for another. So, I know it can be really hard to find the right advice to listen to, that's part of why we're doing this podcast. But yeah, I really feel for these situations because it's really, really hard.
Okay, our next question.Let's see:
"Can we live in the house during renovation? (One of our favorite questions).We're considering a major renovation, and the biggest question is whether we can stay in the house while it's happening. We have two kids and a dog, and moving out will be expensive and disruptive, but living through construction sounds miserable.How do people decide whether staying put is realistic?"
Love this question.
Sheri Scott (16:56):
Yeah, and it's an easy answer from my side with a lot of experience. If there is any way, any way to work it in your budget to move out, you should move out. It is.We can work through; we can talk through how many layers it affects with you living in the home. You, the builder, the money, the stress, everything.
Marilyn Moedinger (17:25):
Yeah, it's pretty awful. I will say the first question, can we live in the house during renovation? You and I are both like “No.”So, end of story, let's move on. But we're going to talk about it.
[Laughter]
Everybody thinks that/well, most people think that they can, they all say, "Well, just build us a little kitchenette in the basement and we'll just live down there and it'll be fun for like six months." So, there's a lot of reasons why that doesn't work. And if you're doing a partial renovation, okay, maybe but if you're doing anything, like if you're touching the kitchen and bathrooms and whatever.
So, every time they do something, they have to turn off the electrical and turn off the water. If they have to re-hook that up every day, let's just say that it takes them 20% of their day to re-hook things up and reconnect things and work around you and go through the dust barriers and all this kind of stuff.
That means your project's going to take 20% longer. Like they can't work as fast, so your project will last longer. They're having to re-hook up the electrical, re-hook up the plumbing every day so you can use your little kitchen.It's going to take longer. They have less place to store materials.
Where are you going to put all the construction materials?Where are you putting all your furniture? No matter what kind of dust walls they put up, dust gets through. I don't care if you have a clean room, it doesn't work. It doesn't work in construction.
Sheri Scott (19:01):
Yeah. And those are all the physical things. And then you have to look at maybe their early workers and they want to come in at 6AM, and they can't. They can't come in until 8:30, 8:45 when your kids are out to school because otherwise, they're working around dogs and kids and everything else.
So, that's another extension of time because they're on their workday, they're not going to stay until … you can't say, "Oh, well, you can stay until seven because we're not going to be home." They have their own lives, and they have their own hours they want to keep. So, that's something.
And then just emotionally, it's so hard to live with people in your home. People that you don't recognize from day-to-day, hopefully, you'll have the same crew in general. And it can actually be lovely, and they can be nice to your kids, and they can let your dogs out. That's the good side of it.But then it's so complex in terms of having these people in your family.
And you're talking, this could be a good six, eight, nine months, something even on a well-organized project. So, we're talking about a big renovation.Like you said, yeah, if you're doing your primary bathroom, yeah, you can use your kid's bathroom and have people come in and out for eight weeks, it's going to be fine. But on a big renovation, there's just so many, so many layers to it.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:39):
I think also on the emotional side, people are generally not prepared for what it feels like to see their house torn to shreds.
Sheri Scott (20:46):
Oh, yeah, I never thought of that.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:49):
It is real. So, when people come into their house, let's say they did move out, when they come in after the house has been demoed on the inside and they see all these finishes ripped out, they see the walls, they see wires hanging, and you and I, Sheri, we see like a clean demo site and we're ready to go and it feels positive.
But for people who are not used to experiencing that, they're like, "How is this all going to go back together? This is so expensive. There's no turning back. What if I made a horrible decision?" And then they see every day, "Oh, why did they only get this much done today?Why weren't they on my job today? What's happening? Why did they only pull three wires today? Why did they not …"
And you're constantly, constantly bombarded with information that you don't know how to process because it's already a huge burden to do a renovation. But to witness it live is emotionally destroying. Like it just is.
The strongest people, the smartest people, the everything, just don't do it if for that reason alone, the project will take longer and it will cost more. So, we're dead set against it. But maybe let's take a few minutes and talk about how to practically do that.
Because if we just end this question and we say, "Okay, don't do it." And everyone's like, "Okay, well, what am I supposed to do?" I've had clients. So, most of my projects are big, serious renovations in tight urban environments. They can't pitch a tent in the backyard and nor would you want to for eight months.So, there's a variety of things that people have done.
There's often long stay or Airbnb options that could be possible in your school district because you are not the only person who's ever faced this. So, you get a rental, could be completely furnished. You don't have to move your stuff in, and you live in a rental.So, that's a real cost to rent a place during that time, especially when you're paying for everything else.
But if you think about it, if they are going to take 20 to 30% longer, because I was saying 20%, I wasn't even thinking about the fact that they're not going to be able to start until 8:30. That's an hour and a half later than most construction crews start.
They have these five-hour work days. It's going to take forever to get this thing done. Let's say that that costs an extra 20 to 30% on top of it.Your rental is going to be cheaper than that (laughs). And tough it out at the rental, the kids can share a bedroom. Like it's a two bed with two kids, the kids can share a bedroom.There's a tiny little kitchen. Tough it out at the rental, don't tough it out in your basement.
It's a couple thousand dollars. Anytime I talk about money, I also want to just say I'm not saying it lightly,I totally get it. I did my own renovation, I did not live there,I couldn't. There was no power. So, I get it, tossing around numbers, whatever.But it's when you think about it, it's cheaper to rent a place.
Sheri Scott (24:03):
I recommend to rent it longer than you think it's going to take. I have so many clients that they ask the builder how long is this going to take? And the builder says six months, and something happens and they rent an apartment, a furnished apartment, something for six months, and then they can't extend their lease.
And so, then they're moving again for a shorter term, which is even more expensive.So, there's not a great answer to that because I understand all of it. You can't just rent something for a year because you think it's going to be longer than six months. They're telling you six months, you have to rely on something. Have a plan B. Find out if you can extend your lease month to month.Find something.
I recommend find something that you can extend month to month. You mentioned an Airbnb, a lot of times they are not as accommodating when you get closer to the date to move out. Then they have renters coming behind you. It is complex and I have never done it.I think one of the people we did the interview with, they had to move several times because they got to the end of their lease and had to move out and their project wasn't done.
Marilyn Moedinger (25:22):
And I would say sometimes people, I had clients who moved in with their parents, so that's an option.The trick was their parents were a state away. So, they were in Connecticut when the project was in Massachusetts. So, it's not that far, but it's still … or people might have access to a second home or a family property, a summer house or something.
In Massachusetts, that happens a lot. A lot of people have Cape houses, or they share a house or something, and they say, "Well, we can be gone for June, July and half of August, and we can just be gone." So, that's helpful.
But it's not, it's still not great because you're still putting this really tight timeline and you still have to live there at the beginning and the end, and then you're gone so you can't come back. Are you going to drive back from wherever you are for meetings every week?And if you're needed for decisions? So, there's a sweet spot of being totally gone.
And this goes back to our earlier question, like if you don't have a dedicated team who's managing the project for you properly, then living two or three states over while your renovation is going on is a horrible idea.
So, the romantic notion of let's phase the project and we'll do the stuff that requires us to be out while we're away for the summer and we'll do the stuff where it doesn't matter — but that's not how construction works. That's how “fake world” works. Like construction doesn't work that way.
Sheri Scott (27:01):
But you might have to try it. You might have to have that as a goal and try to work toward that.I will just share two projects we have going on right now. One, they bought a house and they're renovating it before they ever move in. So, they have the advantage that they don't have to sell the house they're in right now before they can renovate and move in.And that's a luxury, of course, but that's great.
The downside of that is they've never lived in the house, so they don't know exactly how they want to use it to renovate it. We always say you should live in the house for a while and get to know it before you design something else for it, but it's all a balancing act. So, they would rather stay in the house they're in and go ahead and trust us for the design and all that.
The second one is they are adding, they're literally just adding a primary suite off the side of their house. So, there's literally a door where we're going to come in through a hallway. So, that exterior door is just going to stay closed, sealed. We're building the entire thing. And then at the very end, we're going to break through.
There will be some electric shutdowns and water shutdowns and things like that that they're willing to work through. But that's another way to manage kind of staying in the house. If you can, if you're adding on "a wing" that's just touching the house and you can break through at the end, that seems to be less disruptive.
Marilyn Moedinger (28:39):
Yeah, I think that's the key, is understanding the particulars of your project. We're super quick with saying no, you can't, and I think that would be our preference because we've seen it so many times over the last few decades.That said, there are ways to do it. It's just not going to be fun.
So, I think going back to the question where this person said, how do people decide whether staying put is realistic?You have to talk to your project team, and you have to talk through all these logistics. And what seems simple, it's an unknown. Like people are willing to do it because it's unknown.
They have no idea what it's going to be like, so they're willing to do it. If they really knew what it was like, they would not choose it.It has been my experience.
Sheri Scott (29:28):
Yes, I agree. You won’t do it twice.
Marilyn Moedinger (29:30):
Right, you will not do it twice.
[Laughter]
And you'll end up spending more money and time.
Sheri Scott (29:35):
You will, that's the truth.
Marilyn Moedinger (29:35):
And I feel like people are so worked up about, well, let's pick out this tile because it's going to be cheaper and I have to figure out how to make the cabinet so they hit our budget. And I'm like, "Here's something you could do that could save 20%, and then they don't want to do it."I'm like, "Well, I don't know what to tell you." So, it's a tough one, but the emotional side is real.
Sheri Scott (29:53):
Okay, are you ready for a third question?
Marilyn Moedinger (29:56):
Let's do it.
Sheri Scott (29:57):
Okay. "So, what early decisions affect cost the most?" They said:
"We haven't even finalized the design yet, but I'm already hearing that certain decisions have a huge impact on budget. Before we get too attached, what choices tend to drive cost the most in a new build or major renovation?"
Marilyn Moedinger (30:18):
Let's talk about new builds because I think these are two different … I mean, obviously planning ahead always is some — like if the more planning ahead you do, the more predictable the project will be, and the more you understand what the cost will be. So, that's a blanket statement. But let's start with new builds.
I know since that's a lot of what you do, Sheri, what are some of the things that people do, from a new build perspective here?
Sheri Scott (30:44):
Yeah, well, from the very beginning, choosing your site. If you have a complex site, if you have a wooded site, if your house is way down a lane, which everybody loves, that is very expensive. What else?Where you put it on the site. Are you doing a full walkout? Are you on the edge of a cliff or are you in the middle of a flat field? So, those decisions.
And these all come with design decisions. I'm not saying that you shouldn't plan on any of these things.You just need to know that that decision … I can't tell you how many people did not understand how putting a house far back off the road affects their cost. Getting electricity back there, you have to have … I've lost the word now, but you have to have an intermediate station to like-
Marilyn Moedinger (31:39):
Transformer.
Sheri Scott (31:39):
Yes, thank you. Halfway back.And so, we're talking tens of thousands of dollars, not to mention, are we doing a gravel driveway? Are you going to plow that driveway? Are you going to have it lit?So many, so many things. Just dollars, just adds up dollars. Other than being way far off the road, you're not getting a great return on that money.It's infrastructure money.
What else? Style. The style that you choose is going to be a big cost driver.We do a lot of modern work, and the cleaner, the lines and the more lovely detail you do and things that you have to … the precision you have to do that you can't cover up with trim is very expensive. The minimalist windows are very expensive. So, those decisions and to know we can get a modern aesthetic without going full minimalist modern, that's something to keep in mind.
Size. People know that size matters in terms of cost, but it is variable.So, having a huge living room full of floor and ceiling and air, that costs less than a double kitchen. So, there are some decisions like that. Like you need to know your square footage, what's the most expensive square footage?
And yeah, so those are kind of where I would start with clients if I'm sitting down across from a table and they're budget conscious, which everyone has a budget. Those are kind of the things we talk about before we even talk about how many bedrooms and how many things if we're talking budget.
Marilyn Moedinger (33:36):
Yeah, the infrastructure cost is real. I mean, I think that's when people are researching how much a house costs per square foot to build, that's the house that has nothing to do with like your septic and your engineering, civil engineering, building the driveway, getting electrical back there, doing all that stuff, that can cost as much as the house (chuckles).And it's not a throwaway thing off to the side, it's really real.
So, I think the other thing about new builds too is if you're in an urban environment, most of the time we're doing renovations because that's the way it is.It's already there so we're renovating what's there, or we have to keep the house that's there for zoning reasons, even though we're basically sort of rebuilding it in place and adding on to it in these kinds of crazy ways.That the choice of sites like site selection, even in a renovation in an urban area matters a lot.
So, we just finished a project last year that was on a street in a very, very, very dense, old neighborhood in Boston that doesn't even have … it's a pedestrian access street, that the closest car access street is one way. And the only way to get on that street is to go on two tight turns that a truck can't get down.
So, the biggest thing we could get down there was a utility van. And you can't even get to the door. You still have to walk down the street, that's pedestrian only.
Sheri Scott (35:14):
Sounds amazing, by the way.
Marilyn Moedinger (35:16):
It was gorgeous. It's so cool.And for them living there, it's so awesome. And they walk out the front door with their kids and it's safe and it's beautiful, and their neighbors are right there. Like it's so awesome.And the price they pay is the renovation was very complicated. It took a lot of time because every delivery has to basically be hand carried in.
And that's a lot of the work that we do is those types of projects.So, people are paying a premium, speaking of site selection. They're paying a premium to live in a certain neighborhood. And I have seen costs for a project swing wildly depending on which part of a neighborhood they're in.
Like I did another project where we had a straight shot, two lane road, and there was parking right next to it because there was a Whole Foods, so you can kind of figure it out. And just those little details meant that the project was easier to execute.
So, a lot of times when people come to us in the site selection side, they're not like there's no cliffs or empty fields or all the cool stuff you get to deal with. But there's this, "Oh, I'm in this neighborhood. I had no idea it was going to cost me this much extra to build here."I'm like, "Yeah, the guys can't park."
Or high-rise condos, when we renovate those, like the guys are going up and down the elevator. It takes them forever.They can't pull their trucks up, like blah, blah, blah. So, it matters a lot. So, yeah, site selection, whether it's a new build or a renovation.
Other decisions that have a huge impact on budget, I mentioned planning ahead. I think one of the ways that people should plan ahead more on that will help with costs is mechanical layouts.So, ductwork, basically.
So, a lot of times, the design happens and then the ductwork and the mechanical HVAC, the layout of those things is left as design build with subcontractor. That means that the design's finished and then the subcontractor is literally figuring out where to stuff all these ducts.And that's where all these soffits come from.
They're like, "I can't figure it out, I'm just going to run a soffit."Your mechanical subcontractor is not the designer of your space. So, they're not going to be as careful. They're going to pick the easiest thing for them to run things.If you plan ahead, then you don't have to say, "Oh my gosh, there's a beam right in the way. I'm going to have to do this crazy thing with the HVAC, or I'm going to have to move the unit, I can't put it here."
And it gets really complicated. If you plan it out ahead, then you've planned your chases. You've planned your ducts, you've planned your soffits, and the mechanical guys come in and they're like, "Oh, there it is. Boom, boom, boom.We can just do it." And they're not having to sit there and scratch their heads and work their way around a bunch of complicated things.
So, I would say that's some planning that really makes a big difference, is planning out your HVAC system before you start construction.
Sheri Scott (38:22):
Yeah, I think that's true, especially in renovation. I think in new builds, it's not as important. Although we do always provide the chases.We're doing less and less full two-story chases because we're putting more units in now instead. But that's all part of planning because if you have a unit on the second or third floor, you need a utility closet, you put it somewhere (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (38:49):
Yep, and it's always too small (laughs).
Sheri Scott (38:51):
Always too small. I know we always want it smaller (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (38:56):
The architects want it smaller, the builders want it bigger and I'm like, "Look, I gave you a 12 by 12 closet,I don't want to hear it. Like, it's huge. You're fine."The other thing, choices that make a difference early in a design is having a sensible structural design.
So, when we're early in design, we are thinking about structure from day one. Like we're thinking about: this is going to be a big carry beam because we're trying to get this big open space, this is where the posts are going to come down to make this happen, whatever.If you don't think about that ahead of time, you're cramming that in later.
Or if you're doing things like making a six-foot cantilever that requires a giant steel beam, when making it five foot six gets the same visual impact, but you can use a smaller beam that will cost less. That's the kind of stuff you get with a seasoned architect, is that they're thinking about that stuff early and helping you make decisions that say, let's just make that cantilever five foot six and not six foot because that tips us into this other sort of realm.
And if you don't know, and your architect doesn't know, and your builder doesn't know, then you could be spending tens of thousands of dollars on stuff that doesn't matter as much.
Sheri Scott (40:09):
Yeah, that's really smart. Early in my career, I've always done residential work, and early on, I learned the lesson of keep the foundation simple. And it is so true. And it is true that the concrete contractor is going to charge you for every corner.That is true, but that is not where it adds up. Where it adds up is then the walls that come up, you need to trim those corners. You either need to trim or you need to miter.
As you keep going up, then you have roof lines that break and need flashed and valleys and ridges, and all of those things. It just exponentially gets more expensive as that complex foundation comes up out of the ground and you have to finish it all.
So, just as a rule of thumb, look at your foundation.It does not have to be a single rectangle, but there's a lot in design that you can do where you're not just jagged foundation all the way around.
Marilyn Moedinger (41:17):
Yeah, and I think that's the difference too between working with an architect who understands construction and working with one who doesn't. So, someone who understands construction is going to say things exactly the way you just said it (laughs). Because then, we can pull it back around to say, let's put our architect hat back on and say, "Where are we going to do those corners because it's totally worth it."
We're not suggesting that you live in a single box, and that's it, what we're saying is you want to spend money where it matters, not where you're making something really complicated for no reason, like you're backing into the design. Or as we say here at Runcible Studios, the tail is now wagging the dog. Back up and make sure that you're making decisions, and revisit certain decisions as the design evolves.
We just went through this on a project where we removed a certain element from the interior design, and then we were like, well, now we should shift this over here because now, it doesn't make sense that this is off-center because now this thing isn't here. So, then we rejiggered it and we didn't just take it out and we're like, there you go.
And now, it's going to be cheaper because it's less complicated and we're going to get the most bang for our buck for removing that element, which we did for cost reasons.
Sheri Scott (42:37):
I love that. That's part of what I love about being an architect.
Marilyn Moedinger (42:39):
Me too. Yeah, it’s so fun.
Sheri Scott (42:43):
I know.It's fun and it's meaningful. And why not get as much as we can out of a design? Like a good designer can make something beautiful that is in budget and is structurally more simple.Not always simple, but-
Marilyn Moedinger (43:03):
But spending money where it matters. I would say too, and I know we're wrapping up, but a lot of times people think that they can save money just with the finishes.So, every single person I've ever worked for in my entire life, at every budget level, has said to me, "Well, we just want middle of the road, good solid, we're not looking for the gold-plated whatever." Literally, there's some manual that everyone reads that they say this.
Sheri Scott (43:31):
(Laughs) I don't want gold-plated.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:33):
I don't want gold-plated toilets. I'm like, okay. So, that being said, yes, you can save a lot of money in the finishes, but you can only squeeze so much out of a wood floor.Or yes, if you're getting super fancy species. But if you already have just your basic good quality oak engineered floor, you're not going to squeeze $50,000 out of changing that spec if you're looking to make big moves on keeping a project in budget.
That said, every single project I work on, it is the clients who are upping the budget.I am showing them what's in their budget, and they're like, "Ooh, but look at this faucet."
Sheri Scott (44:19):
What's that over there?
Marilyn Moedinger (44:21):
And I get it. And it's fun to do that.But a big part of this is what decisions can be made early. You as the owner have to stick to your guns for yourself.Owners all the time say things like, "Our budget is X." And I'm like, "What you're asking for is 2x." "Well, that's okay.We want to do it, but we only want to spend X." I'm like, "No."
[Laughter]
So, I think one of the things that can happen besides all the stuff we just said, is to also make sure you as the homeowner are sticking to your guns with yourself. You said you wanted to spend only X dollars on something when you're out shopping for tile, understand that that's still the budget, like you can blow it pretty easily.
Sheri Scott (45:13):
And the earlier you blow it, the more miserable your project's going to be. So, we were talking about these early decisions of staying in budget, that is a really smart question of that person to ask.Because if you can't stay in budget in the beginning, it will get exponentially worse because you will still want the tile that is two times the cost.
Which if you've stayed in budget and you have a contingency, which we always recommend, like there at the end, if you mind your pennies in the beginning, then you're going to have some dollars at the end to do something fun with that's more tactile, more something that you touch every single day.
Marilyn Moedinger (45:55):
Instead of talking about structure and HVAC and insulation.
Sheri Scott (45:59):
Yes, but those things like in the beginning, they're so important to keep those on track.
Marilyn Moedinger (46:06):
And you can ask yourself, "If I upgrade the windows and it costs me 20% more, am I getting that much more value out of it?" And sometimes the answer is yes, absolutely.And sometimes it is, nope, I can deal with the ones that are like just as good. They just don't have this like one or two bells and whistles on it.
Well, three more questions under our belts there for a little mailbag.
Sheri Scott (46:33):
I love these questions because they are what we deal with every day and conversations we have every day with our clients.
Marilyn Moedinger (46:40):
Absolutely. And we would love to hear more questions from anyone. We're always eager to answer questions.Even if you want to ask the same question, but in a different way or your own particular situation that you're dealing with that's very specific, we're happy to talk about it.
So, I guess on that note, we can close this out here by just saying thanks for joining us today on Home: The Second Story for our mailbag. As I just said, if you've got questions or things you'd like us to go over, or if you want to be a guest on one of our guest interview episodes, drop us a line.
Sheri Scott (47:13):
We'd love that.
Marilyn Moedinger (47:14):
Our email is admin@htsspodcast.com. And also follow us on Instagram, we're trying to do some stuff over there. Yeah, so we'll see you next time.
Sheri Scott (47:23):
Bye.
[Music Playing]
Voiceover (47:24):
Thanks for listening to Home: The Second Story Podcast. Feel free to share this episode with a friend. Contact information for both of our architects are in our show notes, and don't miss future episodes. Follow or subscribe to our show for free in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you're listening right now.