This episode brings us a new perspective - someone who has been in their home for nearly two decades. Today, we sit down with Scott Choppin, a Long Beach, California homeowner who completed a full scrape-and-rebuild of his family home nearly twenty years ago. We explore what it means to live with your design decisions over the long term and how perspective changes when you’ve raised a family in the house you built from scratch. Scott’s project is a 4,600-square-foot Spanish-style home built on a 5,000-square-foot lot in Belmont Shore, replacing a modest 1940s house that no longer met his family’s needs.
We talk about how Scott and his wife decided that renovation wasn’t realistic and why starting over ultimately made more sense. With a growing family and limited lot constraints, we discuss how the existing footprint would have restricted the design and forced compromises that didn’t align with their goals. Scott’s comfort with new construction, shaped by his professional background in real estate development, made the decision to scrape the house easier than it might be for most homeowners. (Also, Taylor vows to bring the term "scrape" to Alabama.)
We walk through the design process, starting with a “core” family space his wife envisioned and building the rest of the house around it. We discuss how big-picture planning came first, followed by detailed decisions about room sizes, circulation, and everyday functionality. Scott shares how bringing the general contractor on early helped filter design ideas through a buildability lens and how trust played a major role in their team dynamic. He also reflects on moments of friction with the architect during construction and how those experiences shaped the process.
During construction, we hear a memorable story about severe rain, high groundwater, and a bulldozer sinking into the site—an early reminder that building a house is fundamentally about problem-solving. We emphasize the importance of asking, “What’s the plan?” rather than panicking when things go wrong, and how trust, communication, and patience are critical during setbacks.
Looking back after nearly two decades, Scott shares valuable lessons about long-term durability, maintenance, and material choices. We talk about plumbing fixtures, flooring, electrical systems, decks, and the importance of choosing well-supported brands and keeping detailed records. Scott also reflects on what he would not do again—like Juliet balconies and overly complex lighting systems—and what he still loves, including the timeless Spanish exterior and neutral interior finishes that have aged gracefully.
We conclude by emphasizing that no project is perfect, every house requires ongoing care, and thinking beyond move-in day is one of the most important lessons homeowners can take away.
(00:00) Introduction & Guest Overview
(02:10) Project Background & Timeline
(05:59) Renovate vs. Rebuild Decision
(10:51) Design Process & Core Planning
(17:22) Zoning, Setbacks & Tradeoffs
(21:06) Construction Begins & Site Challenges
(26:13) Managing Stress & Problem-Solving
(35:11) Long-Term Materials & Maintenance
(40:56) What Still Works After 19 Years
(43:12) Final Advice & Takeaways
Voiceover (00:02):
Everyone says how horrible it'll be to renovate or build your house, we're here to say, it doesn't have to be that way.
Join three seasoned architects as they interview homeowners who recently completed a large project and ask them one simple question: what do you know now that you wish you knew before you started?
Welcome to Home: The Second Story Podcast.
Taylor Davis (00:26):
Hi, and welcome to Home: The Second Story. We're three residential architects sharing real conversations with homeowners who've taken on a custom home or renovation project. If you haven't already, check out our first episode to hear more about us and why we're doing this.
I am Taylor Davis from TPD Architecture and Design in Birmingham, Alabama.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:42):
I’m Marilyn Moedinger from Runcible Studios, located in Boston, Massachusetts, and Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
Sheri Scott (00:48):
And I am Sheri Scott with Springhouse Architects in Cincinnati, Ohio. Today, we are joined by Scott Choppin from Long Beach, California.
Hi, Scott.
Scott Choppin (00:58):
Hi. Good morning, Sheri.
Sheri Scott (01:00):
Thanks for being here.
Scott Choppin (01:02):
Thank you.
Sheri Scott (01:03):
I'm going to ask you five quick questions just to kind of get the lay of the land and see what we're going to be talking about. So, first of all, where is your project located?
Scott Choppin (01:12):
So, this is our personal residence. It's also in Long Beach, California, in a neighborhood called Belmont Park, which would be at the south end of LA County at the Orange County border. The neighborhood locally is called Belmont Shore in Naples Island.
Sheri Scott (01:27):
And what was the project? A new build or an addition, renovation?
Scott Choppin (01:32):
It was a new build, although as Marilyn and I talked about, we actually lived in the original house that we bought from the first owner who built it in the 40s, and then we scraped it and rebuilt it.
Sheri Scott (01:43):
Oh, okay. How long did you live in that house?
Scott Choppin (01:46):
Before or after (laughs)?
Sheri Scott (01:48):
Before.
Scott Choppin (01:50):
Probably like a couple years, I think. Very quick.
Sheri Scott (01:54):
When did you start your project and when did you move in?
Scott Choppin (01:57):
Okay, we're going to go into deep history here. So, we started in 2004, and Sheri, if I forget the questions, remind me. So, we started 2004, we moved in in 2006. So, it was about a two-year period.
Sheri Scott (02:10):
Okay, great. And what's the size or style? Tell us a little bit about the project. What's it look like?
Scott Choppin (02:17):
So, we're in California, so we're I would say a very classical Spanish style of sort of smooth coat stucco Spanish style. We've got a sort of a turret style front entry. It's 4,600 square feet, roughly. We built the house really to house our family which was growing at that time. So, it was myself and my wife and our three kids. And so, for virtually its entire life, it's been a family house and still is even to this day.
Sheri Scott (02:49):
And there are a lot of different ways to work with an architect from just buying plans or a design offline, all the way through full services and construction administration. How or did you work with an architect on this project?
Scott Choppin (03:03):
Yeah, we actually did work with an architect, a local guy, in fact, he's still active today. And he was one of those people that have sort of well-known in the local area of people that had rebuilt houses. And as you guys have probably talked to and done yourselves and other guests, as you're thinking about designing the new house, you start to look at other houses and what other work has been done by architects, so we ended up picking this gentleman.
It was basically full CDs. Basically, the story is my wife was the one who came up with really what I call the core of the house. And so, that's sort of a fairly large family room, kitchen, dining, nook area, and then we sort of built the rest of the house or designed the house around that core.
And he did full CDs, and then we did use a general contractor, but because of my day-to-day job as a developer of apartment projects and also providing development service to others, we didn't have any construction administration. In fact, it was interesting that architect and I sort of battled a little bit as we were building the house.
And you naturally start to make changes, particularly in the framing part of the project where we were changing things, nothing radical. I mean, I'm wise enough to not go too crazy in making changes, it's a little too late to be doing that. But we rounded off some corners to give clearance and hallways and did different things like that.
But he and I battled a little bit. In fact, I think I still am friendly with him, but I also think it put a little bit of a touch on our relationship. I was probably much more feisty then, which was a long time ago than I'm now.
[Laughter]
You would probably blame it on me, but that's fine. The house turned out amazing.
Sheri Scott (04:57):
It's interesting that you presented it that way because we try to talk to homeowners that have been in their house for at least a year, and here you've been in 19 years or did it 19 years ago, and it really does lend a different perspective of the choices we make and how we made it all work. So, thank you for that.
Scott Choppin (05:18):
A year is not long enough to figure out what you would do differently, 19 is probably plenty enough (laughs).
Sheri Scott (05:24):
Yeah, probably. Yeah, thanks.
Marilyn Moedinger (05:27):
I think that's part of the reason why I was excited to have you on to tell your story, Scott, because so many of our guests have only lived in their house for a short amount of time.
I want to go back to the very beginning where you lived in your house for a couple of years before you decided … I think I remember you telling me you got the house and you knew you needed to make some improvements to it, but eventually, you made the decision that it couldn't be improved as it was, or added onto or renovated, you had to start from scratch.
So, can you tell us how did you come to that decision?
Scott Choppin (05:59):
We didn't talk about that specific question, Marilyn, I still haven't given that much thought. I think the original house, as I said earlier, was built by … so we bought it from the estate of a woman who had passed away and it was being sold by her kids, but she was the original builder undertaking the build out and live that in that house, and so this was 1999 when we bought the house.
And it was built in 1940s, so she had lived in it a long time, and it was a three-bedroom, sort of this … I can't describe the architecture. It was almost like it had some streamlined modern kind of, you know-
Marilyn Moedinger (06:39):
That's fun (laughs).
Scott Choppin (06:41):
But just very slightly, like a couple things. Like there was a little sort of cover on the front porch that had a rounded corner and a pole, and the molding on the facia on the cover was that way, but that was the only part of the house (laughs) … there's a couple other curved parts of the house.
I think at the end of the day, what I would say was a three-bedroom, one-bath house, and the three bedrooms I think would've been fine but we knew at this point, in fact, we had by that time, two kids and even a third on the way. And so, we knew that we were going to need four bedrooms minimally.
In fact, I remember spending almost the entire time that we lived there trying to figure out how we could expand this house from a remodel standpoint. And it’s like on a 5,000 square foot lot. So, I think it was like 1,300 or 1,400 square feet on 5,000.
So, I had a really nice front yard, really nice backyard, typical California alley in the back, detached two-car garage, just same era as the house. And there's no way to really like figure … like you could add a second story. But by the time, in my mind, at least as a developer, you're going to do that, then you're going so radically changing. And the construction obviously, whatever the structural upgrades would be to put a second floor on it, I mean, that thing was just going to be Swiss cheese, basically (laughs).
And so, I know my wife and I went through sort of several iterations. So, I think it was just at this point in time, even when she did that core drawing. I mean, that core space that she designed was probably two thirds of the house, the original house, as far as square footage of that room, of that family space. And so, by the time you start to think about that, you're like, “There's no way (chuckles).”
Marilyn Moedinger (08:31):
I think what you're expressing here is something … so, when we meet with clients, a lot of times, they are in the throes of trying to make that decision: do I stay and renovate? Do I build new? Do I build something that I'm going to tear down? Trying to make those decisions is really hard, and you highlighted a couple of things from your own experience that led you to understand.
I mean, the vast majority of homeowners are not coming to this process with that level of understanding of like, “Hey, if you're going to do a second story, just demolish it and start over, you're going to get more of what you want.”
Scott Choppin (09:05):
I was certainly very comfortable with a scrape and new construct which I could imagine a lot of people wouldn't be.
Marilyn Moedinger (09:11):
And you probably got a lot more of what you wanted, and it was more cost effective in the end too, actually … which sort of feels counterintuitive. Starting from scratch seems like it might be more expensive or take more time, but that's not the way it is though.
Scott Choppin (09:27):
Plus, I mean, I think you guys know better than me as architects, but there's just limiting factors when you have to use the old footprint. I mean, maybe push out the edges and that kind of thing, but you're hemmed in to some degree by that. And then you say, do you extend the foundation and whatever you would do to sort of make the footprint better than what it was originally?
And I probably didn't think about it super hard because I was so comfortable with new construction. To me, it was a very quick, okay, well, this is a scrape so we didn't think about it deeply. But again, based on the experience of having demoed dozens and dozens of houses in our own apartment projects and building new, that was probably just this norm that I was used to as you suggested.
Marilyn Moedinger (10:17):
Yeah, yeah, and it made sense. Well, let's talk about the design process a little bit. I mean, you've mentioned that during the construction process or at different times, like you and the architect may have butted heads a little bit, that's fine, none of us are scared of that, we can talk about that a little bit.
And sometimes from friction, that's where good stuff comes from and you want to stand up for what's important to you and that kind of thing. But can you talk a little bit about the design process and especially with your wife's core drawing, you started with that, and kind of how you moved through the design process.
Scott Choppin (10:51):
Yeah, we took that core idea and ultimately gave it to the architect that we worked with. I know we had mapped — I'm going off memory here a little bit. But I know we had mapped out other parts of it. Like, hey, the living room wants to be in the front of the house, and I remember my wife wanted a bigger window that looked out from the living room onto the front yard and the street.
And then we started just as you lay out and draft, I mean … and this is how I work as a developer; you take the core idea and give it to the architecture team and then just say, “Develop it with these other considerations. I want living room on the ground floor in the front, obviously, that's a natural place for it.”
And then the style of the house obviously suggested certain design directions. So, as an example, we're obviously at the front door, at the front — actually the GC came up with this, and let me stop for a minute and add, we, by this point in time, had brought the GC in during the design process because I knew him-
Taylor Davis (11:58):
The critical thing.
Marilyn Moedinger (11:59):
Yeah, yeah. So good.
Scott Choppin (12:02):
And it was interesting because he was an architect also. Now, I didn't look to him-
Marilyn Moedinger (12:06):
You're surrounded.
[Laughter]
Scott Choppin (12:07):
I know, right, exactly. And why that's important, which you guys will know, but for your audience's benefit, it's unusual to have a GC architect combo, we'll just admit that up front.
But what I would always look for the GC to help with is to take the architects and us as the owners' ideas and plans, and then start to filter them through a buildability sort of matrix. Like, “Okay, can we really do these things that we're suggesting to do?”
And then also, that GC came up with some ideas of things to change. One consideration that came up is that the way the zoning code in the city of Long Beach where we live, our one code, we went fairly aggressively to try to maximize the footprint to the least amount of setback possible. So, we were very narrow on both sides.
And then in the back, the garage, we have an alley loaded garage, we push the garage face really up as close to the alley as we could. We happened to have a set of power lines on our side of the alley, and so there was an easement that we bumped up against that and then the rest of the back was a small backyard.
So, we started to sort of lay out all the rooms. Of course, we wanted all the main bedrooms upstairs, majority of the bathrooms laundry was upstairs, and then what ends up happening is you start to sort of bulk out that, okay, family room goes here, living room goes there, dining room's there, bedrooms are here, then you start to look at what's left over, and then figure out what else you've got to try to fit.
So, as an example, one of the things that came up was the architect laid out in the upstairs on the front over a guest bedroom that was on the ground floor next to the living room on either side of the front door. He had a small room that was really sort of unprogrammed, but it was some space that he had available, and we hadn't planned on having a gym at the house or was going to be a gym rather, sorry. It was a gym, but it wasn't a big enough gym. It was going to be relatively small so my wife-
Marilyn Moedinger (14:16):
They're never big enough in my opinion.
[Laughter]
Scott Choppin (14:18):
Exactly. And to my wife's great credit, she's like, “Oh, no, (laughs) this thing's got to get bigger.” So, we ended up pushing that front wall out over to the face that was on the ground floor downstairs in that guest bedroom.
So, you bulk everything and then you start to fit in everything else that you need and then you start to adjust. Okay, this room's got to get a little bit bigger, you start to think about the dimensions of a laundry room. I want a full-size side by side washer, what space do I have left? I have a folding table, can I put a sink in there?
You start to think about bathroom layouts, of course, this is when you're getting into am I going to have a shower enclosure or I'm going to have a tub? What size tub is it going to be? And you guys, you do this naturally, but it's sort of like a hierarchy of-
Marilyn Moedinger (15:11):
That’s right. You move through, yeah.
Scott Choppin (15:13):
Yeah, right. Like it's the big stuff first, then the little stuff, and then the tweaks is in layman's terms (laughs).
Sheri Scott (15:19):
At what point were you massaging all of this? Had you already brought the contractor on, the GC?
Scott Choppin (15:27):
When we were doing that tweaking part, Sheri is what you mean? Yeah, I'm going off memory here, but I remember there's a couple key things that the builder, the GC came up with that were, I won't call them showstoppers, but one of the things that came up is one of the setbacks in the back of the house where our master was, we had a really nice big closet, sort of his and hers closet.
And when we discovered this setback requirement, you couldn't have the second floor right up against the PL of the adjacent. The wall on the ground floor could be off the PL, but then the upper floor had to be set back, and that setback was like a big chunk of our closet (laughs). Like my wife still gives me crap about it today.
She's like, “You know, if I had my full closet (laughs) …” And so, we made the choice, like we could have gone to the zone administrator in the city of Long Beach, and you do basically, it's a staff level public hearing and waited for that but we were not wanting to wait. And also, I'm obviously in my development business day-to-day, I know the risk of these kinds of things.
And we were being fairly aggressive in other places. I mean, legally aggressive, but we didn't want to get into this, once you go to that kind of a zoning review, then you open up the books on everything, they'll dig into everything.
And again, we were legal on everything, but as an example, the back fence that faces the backyard in the alley, we had made a decision to do the six-foot height off of a grade that ended up basically, the alley wall is like 10 feet tall when you're on the alley side of it. So, we had raised the grade, and it's a little bit of a gray area and sort of was like a risk, and the closet lost.
[Laughter]
So, I think I'm-
Taylor Davis (17:22):
So sad. Tell your wife I'm sorry.
[Laughter]
Scott Choppin (17:25):
Right, exactly. She'll appreciate that. So, I think to answer to your question, Sheri, I don't remember exactly when we brought him in, but we hadn't finished the design and we hadn't finished the plan check and the permitting yet, and he was on board. And of course, you guys would recommend to your clients, bring the GC on day one, even in the schematic phase.
Sheri Scott (17:47):
Somewhere during the design when we have something laid out that we can all sit and look at and talk about. I was also curious if you had worked with that GC before. Just seems like you trusted him a lot.
Scott Choppin (18:00):
Yeah, I hadn't worked in the way that you're asking, but he was a family friend, I'd call him. So, my dad was also a developer, and this GC had built a lot of apartment buildings for my dad and our family, and then he had actually done my dad's house, which had a lot of actually, this similar Spanish elements that we ended up using in our house, typical California.
So, he was a family friend and highly trusted, and obviously, not everybody can have that benefit. I mean, we didn't even consider (and this is very unusual and I wouldn't recommend it) — but because it was such high trust, we did not bid to anybody else. We just went in saying, “Look, we know what we want and we will work …”
I did require him to get as many bids portrayed as possible, just doing good construction management practices. But for all intents and purposes, we didn't negotiate, so it would've been sort of a cost-plus type contract, but obviously, based on a highly trusted relationship, absolutely.
Marilyn Moedinger (19:04):
And that sort of high trust means that you're getting that payoff in other ways. It makes people nervous to imagine that they're not bidding something or that how can I trust that I'm getting the best price.
Well, if it's someone that you know and you trust and there's a relationship there, then that actually goes a lot further than trying to nickel and dime someone and push hard for lower prices. It's actually sort of counterproductive, which-
Scott Choppin (19:31):
For sure. I mean, we were totally transparent on the sub bids. And so, we looked, in fact … the guy's name was RJ. RJ and I went through every trade bid together and picked him. And we sort of debated, he’s like, “Oh yeah, this guy's low but I don't like him as much. He's not as reliable. These are subcontractors.”
So, in that case … and you guys know all this, so it's not new for you, but for your audience, you can still get the benefit of price competitiveness, but it's at the sub level. And you're just sort of looking through — not even looking through the GC, but it's like you’re shoulder to shoulder, you're looking at the subs together, obviously, most of the subs will probably come from the GCs network of subs.
There's a handful of guys that I knew that brought in and I don't even know if any of my guys (laughs) made the grade doing the work. I think a couple did, like the demo guy, demo grading guy, I think he did.
But if you didn't have the high trust with the GC, then you go, “Hey, let's do cost plus maybe with a G-MAX.” So, you got a guarantee maximum price, but then you’re open book on all the subs, and you even pick it together with them, I'd recommend.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:44):
That's really helpful. So, now, we've got the design, we've got the GC on board, we've got the price, we're ready to roll, you've knocked down the house, it's time to start putting something back. So, how did that look like day-to-day for you? How involved were you day-to-day? You said you had the architect involved; how did construction go for you?
Scott Choppin (21:06):
So, just high-level, I didn't ask the architect to do any construction administration, but I think he had to do some basic stuff for city permit purposes, but we didn't ask him to do anything beyond that. And that was very normal for me and for us and the business that I'm in. So, yeah, we scraped the house, and it's funny because we scraped the house-
Taylor Davis (21:29):
I'm going to start calling all of my knockdowns “scrapes.” We've never used that word and now you keep saying it, like that's a really good term.
Scott Choppin (21:37):
So, scrape is the word you don't normally use?
Taylor Davis (21:39):
We don't use that in Alabama, but now I'm going to inject that into the local vocabulary. I’m going to talk about scraping it (laughs).
Scott Choppin (21:46):
Here in California, we call it the full scrape.
Taylor Davis (21:49):
I'm totally using that. Sorry, I totally interrupted, but this is a light bulb.
Scott Choppin (21:52):
No, that's fine. That's great.
Marilyn Moedinger (21:53):
There's often cultural exchange that happens here on The Second Story, because we're coast to coast, all over the place we use different terms. So, it’s good.
Scott Choppin (22:03):
Local vernacular. Well, it's true, I mean, you got to use the right term, otherwise you may have some confusion. Like what do you mean?
Marilyn Moedinger (22:08):
That’s right.
Taylor Davis (22:09):
That's right. Exactly.
Scott Choppin (22:10):
So, we did the demo, foundation, everything else, we had dirt site, and then they started to do the over X and recompact, basically, pulling three to five feet of the soil out and recompacting it, and it rained a ton. And we're in California, so it doesn't really rain all that much, and I don't remember exactly, but it rained for like days on end.
Okay, fine. It's January, I think, if I remember correctly, when this was happening, so we were right in the middle of winter season grading, opening up the site, which is the worst time to do it, of course. And the guy who did the grading, he brought out a really old, like a D4 Caterpillar bulldozer.
And he was out there, and the soil was so wet that he ended up sinking the bulldozer all the way up to the dry … if anybody knows sort of a Caterpillar. And this is an old one with no cover on the top, so just the seat like old school, and it went up to the seat. And so, the tracks were fully buried.
And so, I get the call and I wasn't out there day-to-day, but I tried to drive by every day I could. My office is local, so I got a chance to go by fairly often. But I go by there, and this tractor sunk. And so, in fact the grading guy was standing as construction guys do, their officer is standing around the tractor staring at it, the GC is there, the grading guy, somebody else maybe-
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (23:41):
Everyone's standing with their arms across going, “Well, what are we going to do now?”
[Laughter]
Scott Choppin (23:47):
And so, they brought out an excavator and they almost sunk that too, like it was reaching into the site and had tracks on the dirt, and it started to sink. So, they were like stuck. I mean, literally it was like they didn't know how they're getting out.
Like normally you'd have one piece of equipment pulled the other piece of equipment out, but it was so muddy that the suction on the tracks just not … so we ended up basically having to let the site dry for like weeks, this is why it's such a big deal.
And it rained some more, and then they came out and they excavated … basically what they ended up doing is they had to dig a big hole around the tractor, around the bulldozer, enough for it to then … you could pull it out and there was like no … it's like you sort of pulled it out into open space and I think they opened up the pit, it rained a bunch.
In fact, I have pictures. It was such a big pit guys, and it had so much rain that I could actually skip rocks in my pond on my site, and this is only a 5,000 square foot lot. So, it's not a big lot, but that was sort of cool. My little kids were out there and then they basically-
Taylor Davis (24:50):
Cool in retrospect.
Marilyn Moedinger (24:51):
Cool in retrospect.
Taylor Davis (24:53):
Cool in retrospect.
Scott Choppin (24:56):
We were like, “What's happening?” But we ended up, basically, they poured like, I don't need how many cubic yards of gravel in the bottom of that pit after the water dried up a little bit to be able to then pull that tractor out onto the gravel, which wouldn't sink as much, and then they finally got it out.
I mean, we ended up, I don't remember exactly, but it was like three or four weeks of being stuck. And I probably could have pushed them a little bit harder, but it wasn't exactly in a big hurry because we were still in the winter and rain was still happening, so it wasn't like you could pull it out and instantaneously go back to work, because it still needed to dry out somewhere. Anyways, war story, Marilyn.
Marilyn Moedinger (25:34):
Well, I'm sort of curious about this, I know that you're in the business, so you might have a bit of a different take on some of this, but how did it feel to you and or how would you advise someone who's new to this? You're about to embark on a very expensive thing and you're watching all of this happen on day one or day two; day one was a scrape, day two is the excavator sinking into the mud.
How does that feel? How did you coach yourself or your family or whatever to like, “We're going to get through this.” How do you keep your enthusiasm up?
Scott Choppin (26:13):
It's a great question; I really appreciate that. I will first say the caveat for me is like being in the development business, we ran into this stuff all the time, so I was like used to it. But I try to put my cap on of a somebody who's not as experienced or has no experience in it.
Look, I think everybody's always in a hurry as an owner, somebody whose house is going to be built because we had moved out and we rented a house down on Naples Island.
So, cool but the house was tiny and we ended up being there two years, a little longer than we thought. But I think you have to basically, if you pick the right construction team, obviously there's a certain amount of trust that you have to lend to them and I know that's not always easy. I think inherently, there's a lot of distrust between owners and general contractors, it's inherent in the business.
And part of it is you just talk to them, you go, “Hey, what's your plan? What are doing?” And they'll say whatever they say, and some of it you may understand, and this is probably where it’d be great for like we didn't do this, but great to have the architect come with you and observe the situation and help that like more experience and say, “Look, we've seen this before, it rained for eight days straight, we have a high-water table in the neighborhood, water's at like four or five feet,” so totally saturate the soil in that particular instance, is what I think about.
And then I think I would always advise people to just try to check around for other people that they know, maybe friends or family that have gone through a build out of a house or somehow in the construction industry or have even adjacency to it, and call them in. I'm not a grading guy. When the tractor sunk, I was like, “Okay, that's crazy. I've never seen that one.”
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (28:09):
It's a new one.
Scott Choppin (28:10):
But you sort of, to me at least, logically, you go, “Okay, gosh, man, it rained a ton.” The fact that the GC, of course who I trusted, I'm like, “Dude, what's going on?” He is like, “Oh man, water table's high, all these kinds of things,” which we knew ahead of time. So, I don’t know Marilyn, if that answers your question.
Marilyn Moedinger (28:27):
No, it's great. That's helpful. I mean, I think that whether it's yourself, whether you're drawing your own experience or whether your advice is: find people who've been through it before. I mean that's (spoiler alert) why we're doing this podcast is to help provide that help and those voices of, “Hey, we've been through this, you can do it too (laughs).”
Scott Choppin (28:49):
I'll offer and Marilyn, you and I met through Twitter, not that I'm here to sell or upsell Twitter, X.com, but I think back then, we didn't have social media and we didn't have YouTube. I mean, so one thing you could do is even just go, “Tractor sunk on my house, parcel …” and see who else has gone through this.
Sheri Scott (29:11):
It’s got to be there.
Scott Choppin (29:12):
It's so obscure, it sounds ridiculous to think of that search term, but I bet money there is somebody who's filmed that and they're like, “Holy smokes, tractor sunk on my house.”
And then social media, I think could be interesting just to see who's out there, who's in that … I think in this instance, in the residential custom home or custom home environment, other general contractors, even other subcontractors, I think there's a lot of resources in the social media, resources being the people with the knowledge that you could just go type in a search term and on Twitter and come up with people that are all over the nation, I mean, as you guys are, all over the place.
So, that's a huge asset that we didn't have at the time. I could have gone to the library, I suppose, but (laughs) I don't think there's any books on that particular subject matter back then.
Sheri Scott (30:00):
Well, and it's interesting, the perspective of “It's always something new.” We've all been in this business for a long time, and I'm shocked that almost every project, there's always something new and always something to figure out and to learn. So, yeah, the more trusted people you have around you to stand at the site and cross your arms and talk it through (laughs), the better.
Scott Choppin (30:25):
I'll share, just really briefly. So, in our development services division, I have this terminology, I call it “strategy plus problem-solving.” And I always say real estate projects, including houses, have to have a good strategy, what's the product type, and is it fit for our use and all those kinds of things.
But my dad and I had this conversation over beers (this is like a couple years ago) and we're like, “You know, really, real estate and construction is all problem-solving, a lot of problem-solving,” he said. And then we thought about it and I go, “Oh, it's like a hundred percent problem-solving.”
[Laughter]
I was like, “Okay, yeah, that's it.” And then I said, “Okay, you got to have a good strategy and combination.”
So, for your listeners, I think if you're oriented around that, even you as the owner or whatever, challenge and responsible to some degree for problem-solving, you'll have a team (GC, architect, friends, family, other people that are part of that problem solving) — but I think if you approach it that it just will happen, it's okay, we'll figure a way out.
I mean nobody building a house, particularly a single-family home … I mean, as you said, Sheri, there's lots of new stuff, but it probably is variations on a theme of other stuff that's happened. Maybe it wasn't a sunk tractor, but it was something else kind of thing, that same vein of “I can't drive a tractor on the site because it's too wet.”
There's probably nothing that hasn't been solved in the world of residential construction, and so, it's just figuring out who knows about that and can advise you in that particular moment.
Taylor Davis (31:49):
You said something about problem-solving, and I think a lot of times homeowners are so focused on the solution and the end game that they forget that the solving is the process that has to happen in the interim, and that's the hard part.
And so, I think for a lot of homeowners, they scrape and they're ready to break ground and they're doing all this stuff, and then they're immediately looking at their kitchen, or they think that's what they're immediately going to be looking at.
So, I think when you talk that way or when you use that language of strategy plus problem-solving, particularly around construction, that helps emphasize that there is a process associated with this, and you can't get from scraping the ground to the beautiful kitchen without some hiccups in between.
Scott Choppin (32:37):
Absolutely. We all want the immediate solution. I mean, that's human nature. It's like, “Look, just get it done, please, I don't want to be delayed.” And again, back to this trust thing, if you are already in the non-trusting mode, then you still want the solution plus you're not trusting — well, then the process becomes a challenge, like you're like not trusting that this person … and look, it happens.
We also know that the construction business is inherent with people who aren't fully capable, and part of that's hiring a good GC with that kind of background and experiencing that product type, and also, the subcontractors, we do all this all the time in our development business.
We build all of our apartments in-house, so we have our own construction CMs and superintendents and people that bid and all that kind of stuff. But I always advise people, I go, “Make sure that your architect and your GC and whoever's doing your project have a vast, deep background in that particular product type-
Marilyn Moedinger (33:39):
In that area.
Scott Choppin (33:41):
Yeah. And then even geographically. We talked about whatever- soil conditions, expansive soils always is a fun one, but I see it all the time, and you guys probably do too. I have friends that have picked like, on apartment projects, the wrong architect and I told them, I go, “Look ,sorry that your friend, this person, GC architect, whoever it is never has done this.” They're trying to take a residential spec home guy, do you a mid-rise apartment project.” I said, “That's going to not go well.”
Marilyn Moedinger (34:11):
It’s not going to work.
Scott Choppin (34:11):
It’s not going to go well.
Marilyn Moedinger (34:13):
Well, I think as we're coming in into our sort of big question, I want to ask one more question though which is because you, in the sort of group of interviews we've done so far, have a unique position. I think you're the person who's lived in the house the longest after you've done the project.
So, I'm just curious, one thing that you mentioned when we had our pre-interview was that you've learned things about long-term maintenance, about making decisions about long-term materials or systems. Many of our clients and many homeowners are making these decisions because it's a forever home, they’re moving in and that's it.
So, for you, you've done that. So, what are some of those material decisions or system decisions that you made that you feel really good about, and what are some something you wish you would've done differently?
Scott Choppin (35:11):
You know, it's funny that you bring that, I know we talked about this, Marilyn, but the other day, I was like I am surprised that some things in our house have lasted as long as they've lasted (laughs) 19 years. Like we're just now replacing some things and I'm like, “Man, it's really that thing that lasted for 19 years, I like never would've thought it.”
Marilyn Moedinger (35:29):
And with three kids and full family house.
Scott Choppin (35:33):
I mean, things that pop up that we bought the best that we could at the time would be like plumbing fixtures, shower heads and bathtub, tile choices. And I mean, obviously, every tile's going to be grouted, but obviously, that becomes a long-term maintenance issue.
And that's stuff starting to need to be replaced, and this is — oh, by the way, one piece of advice, and you guys probably knew this, keep really, really good records of all your plumbing fixtures that you bought and tubs, every appliance and even stuff like the type of switches that you bought. In our house, we did a really fancy brain controlled, low voltage switching system, which was great at the time, and that's another surprise that this stuff has lasted that long.
But now the switches are starting to go out and the switches work only with that particular brain, and now I'm in this mode, I go, “Oh, I either got to replace switch by switch or I can't get them anymore, or I got to do the whole thing,” which man, it's like thousands and thousands of dollars to do that. So, keep really good records.
I mean, way beyond what you would think because someday, you're going to have to show a plumber how to replace a faucet, body valve that was made in Italy and needs a new hose and the threads can't be found in the United States. I mean, like this kind of stuff. Literally, I'm like on the internet searching around.
Marilyn Moedinger (37:02):
Well, that's also a little plug for buying brands that are well-known. Like if you get Kohler stuff or whatever — I'm not on here trying to plug a certain brand. But if you get brands that are well-known or well-established, then that helps.
Scott Choppin (37:16):
Agreed. And we wanted obviously stuff that looked great. Like what ends up happening, in fact, how we arrived at the Italian faucet buy, is we went to the plumbing supplies at the showroom and we pick stuff that looked good, and obviously, it sounds cool to have stuff from Italy, but we all know that sourcing replacement parts and if it's a year out, you're probably not a big deal, but then if you think-
Marilyn Moedinger (37:42):
But you're 20 years out.
Scott Choppin (37:44):
20 years out. Like I even talked to the plumber and he is like, “I don't know how to find this hose that fits in your valve body.” And so, I went and found it after a lot of research, but yeah, so definitely name brand stuff is going to be much more, …parts availability, more plumbers will be used to fixing it and know how to maintain it and I've seen it.
Marilyn Moedinger (38:06):
Not the like off brand from Amazon that no one's ever heard of.
Scott Choppin (38:11):
Now, today this is notable. Glad you brought it up. Obviously, we would be getting a lot more stuff from China where back then in 2006, that was a rarity. I can't think of a single thing that we bought that I could draw a line and say this was manufactured China. Probably, maybe parts of it were, but nothing is as pervasive as it is now. So, certainly do that.
And then other materials, flooring is always an interesting issue, how long does it last? With three kids, I mean, our floors just got beat and they lasted fairly well. We ended up having … one thing Marilyn, you and I talked about, but after living in a house for a while, and this usually doesn't show up in the first year, but you start to think about we did a lot of really cool double doors, really high-end wood doors with really fancy lock mechanisms going out on Juliet balconies.
And I think we talked about similarities. It's like I would never do that again. One is that the doors never get open, and so a window would've sufficed easily, and the Juliet balconies and just balconies and decks in general, they get hammered. And we're in California, maybe the sun is more enemy than rain and wet.
But the decks edges are starting to peel up. It's like the decks attack some inches kind of stuff. But it got old and brittle and sudden damage, and it's starting to pull up on the edges and exposing the sub floor sheeting underneath, which look, after 19 years, that's going to happen. Like I'm not-
Marilyn Moedinger (39:52):
Yeah, I mean a good run for-
Scott Choppin (39:56):
(Laughs) Yeah, exactly. Probably another one that we said, “Gosh, it lasted longer than we would've thought.” But you just start to get and we're definitely in the last probably five years starting to come. I think we're on our third tankless hot water heater, those kinds of things just only last so long.
And that's like normal and probably in the old days, we would have materials last longer just because of the manufacturer’s style and capabilities. I think new stuff today, we all know, just doesn't last.
Marilyn Moedinger (40:25):
Yeah, it's just different. Well, our usual question is knowing what you know now, what would you do differently? I feel like you've answered that in spades. So, that's great.
So, I want to just wrap us up with our actual last question here that we like to head out on, which is even with all the excavator getting stuck and the Juliet balconies not being quite what you thought, what's something that every time you are in your house, you just love even after all these years?
Scott Choppin (40:56):
I think for us, the answer is … well, two answers, although they're related to the same thing is one is we picked a very classic Spanish style exterior, which ended up being timeless. I mean, you sort of know it is because obviously, Spanish architecture's been around, let's say for hundreds of years at least in California. But it still looks good, really. I drive by the house and I go, “Oh, okay, that looks great.”
And then the other one is on the interior finishes, we picked stuff that also was fairly time (and I give my wife all the credit for this) — but color choices that were maybe more neutral and I'm not meaning we intended to be boring, but the flooring, I mean, gosh, we still have the same flooring.
It's a dark, engineered wood flooring system and it still looks great. And maybe if one day we will change it out and we'll go obviously into whatever it is, the more modern design; wall colors have changed two or three times-
Taylor Davis (41:59):
They circle back. Everybody's going beige again.
Scott Choppin (42:03):
We moved it. Yeah, we went from beige into like gray.
Taylor Davis (42:07):
Beige and white, now we're back in beige.
[Chuckles]
Scott Choppin (42:09):
But you guys know probably better than me, so yeah. But I think, look, everybody has a different sort of design sensibility and style, and that's certainly, if you're building your own new house that you should honor that. It's your house, you're going to live in it, and there'll be some things that you love and some things that you wish you had done differently. I think that's one thing people to take away, that's normal's normal.
That's perfectly logical, nobody's perfect and gosh, be cranky at the GC because he did this one thing, and the architect did this. And gosh, I did this thing and gosh, I would've done differently, that's very normal. And then I just think try as best as you can to think out into the future longer than you might normally.
Like I think most people go, “Look, I just want to get in the house immediately,” it's whatever, a year out, 18 months out depending on the time cycle of the construction. But then you go, “What does this thing look like in 5 and 10 or 15 years?” And then let that guide to some degree your material choices, harking back to your earlier question, Marilyn.
Sheri Scott (43:12):
Great advice, Scott. Thank you.
Taylor Davis (43:13):
That's super great advice.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:15):
That's fantastic Scott, I really, really appreciate all that wisdom that you're able to share with our listeners.
Scott Choppin (43:24):
Lessons well-learned (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (43:24):
Lessons well-learned. Thank you.
Taylor Davis (43:27):
And tested. That's what I like too, is that it's been tested.
Scott Choppin (43:31):
That’s right. It's been lived (laughs). Lived hard.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:35):
Lived hard. Well, thank you so much Scott. I really appreciate your time today, and our listeners will get so much out of the insights that you shared with us today.
Scott Choppin (43:44):
Yeah, appreciate it.
(Transition)
Taylor Davis (43:46):
He was a great guest. I love the passage of time. I think that's such an important thing and is such a nice, refreshing change for our listeners to hear something that's not just a recent thing, but somebody who's been in it 20 years and still likes it.
Sheri Scott (44:01):
And has stayed.
Marilyn Moedinger (44:02):
Yeah, and has stayed there and is thinking about the next round, and I think, yeah, I would love to … I'm putting this out there to our listeners, it doesn't have to be a recent project. If you've done a project in the last 20 or 30 years, great, give us a call, we'd love to hear that too.
Because I think those insights especially about oh, we've had to replace the water heater a couple times, but that's normal, the flooring is worn like this or these are the decisions we'd make differently. That hits different when you're looking back over a lifetime of raising three kids in the space and now having kids in their 20s coming home or whatever.
Sheri Scott (44:41):
Especially the selections that they made, the hard selections that you don't change very often, they were still happy with.
Marilyn Moedinger (44:48):
Yep, absolutely. I liked when he was talking about all the sort of disasters happening with the excavators and all the stuff.
Taylor Davis (45:00):
I was waiting for him to say they just poured concrete over the top of it, and that was the base-
Marilyn Moedinger (00:18):
And just called it a base (laughs).
Sheri Scott (45:05):
That's a good foundation.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (45:07):
I mean, seismically, it might be slightly problematic. But he was starting to say everyone's always in a hurry. And there's this moment where when stuff is starting to really go crazy on a construction site, so when I used to be a project manager, my boss who trained me as a contractor used to say, “There's not really any emergencies in construction. Like is someone dead? Is something on fire?”
Everything else, you need to act quickly and with purpose, but take a minute, breathe. Everyone's always in a hurry, just take a second, let's see what's going on. Let's not get another excavator stuck, let's think through this. And I thought that was good advice, to not be in a hurry.
Taylor Davis (45:52):
That part too about, and I said it during our talk with him, was the process versus the solution is really, really critical not to forget that you don't finish the drawings, and all of a sudden, the truck rolls away and the curtain goes back and there you have your kitchen. Like there are going to be some challenges and some bumps, and having the expectation going in that those things are going to happen and that your team may not be running around with their heads on fire the same way you might feel they need to be …
It's because they're processing it and they're working towards a solution, and they're thinking about it. They're not ignoring it, they're working through it too. And unless you actually see them with their head … if they have their heads on fire, then maybe you can panic too. But until that point, I don’t know that I would hit the panic button.
Sheri Scott (46:47):
I think it was around that same time that his advice, which I thought was excellent, it’s I'm sure what we all intuitively do. But for the homeowner to approach the subject asking what's your plan instead of saying, “This is wrong and this is wrong,” and just reiterating all of the things that are wrong, which hopefully your contractor already knows — approach them with, “Okay, so what's our plan?” And see if they have a plan (chuckles).
And then if it's a problem, you can keep talking about it, but very likely, you'll get one of two answers. One will be the plan and figure out a way out of it, or number two is, let me talk to my people and find out, and I will get back with you.
Taylor Davis (47:32):
So, that's a really good question, and I was just thinking about that for when we ask our homeowners when they're interviewing contractors and getting references, that's a really good question to ask a reference: what challenges did you have with your project and how did the contractor handle that?
Marilyn Moedinger (47:48):
How did they overcome it? It's a classic.
Taylor Davis (47:49):
How did they overcome it? That's a really, really good question to ask when you're talking to other folks about who you want to work with for your build. I would highlight that with a giant star and underline and bold.
Marilyn Moedinger (48:03):
Because there is no project that's going to be a hundred percent smooth or fine or whatever, none. So, that's not the expectation that we should be having. The expectation is when something started to go a little pear shaped, how did the contractor react? Yeah, that's the real question.
I mean, Scott obviously has a lot of experience given what he does for a living, but it's different when it's your personal house, it's different when you're building it for your family and you're imagining this is where I'm going to raise my kids, and this is where all this is happening. And we've heard it from our other guests who have been in the business or whatever.
So, I just want to say this for homeowners, if you are not in the business, don't worry. It's going to be a little scary. It's scary for people who are in the business, it's a little bit bumpy for everybody. So, in a sense, don't worry about it. Everyone goes through it, everyone feels these senses of panic or these whatever, we'll get through it. Everybody does, and I think that's an important thing to take away as well.
Taylor Davis (49:17):
The sense that there is the other side, and you will get there, that it's the … oh, what's from the Princess Bride? What's the swamp with the R.O.U.S.'s, the rodents of unusual size — what's the swamp? Oh my gosh.
Marilyn Moedinger (49:32):
I know exactly what you’re talking about.
Taylor Davis (49:33):
You know what I'm talking about and I can't remember the name of the swamp. Everybody's got to go through the dismal, the great dismal, something like that.
Marilyn Moedinger (49:40):
That's a real swamp (laughs).
Taylor Davis (49:42):
Oh yeah, the great dismal is a real swamp. That's the great dismal. But there is a swamp in the Princess Bride, but nonetheless, you got to get through the swamp with the rodent of unusual size in order to get to the other side.
Marilyn Moedinger (49:51):
That’s right. Well, and I want to also say something about Scott's story. So, he was talking about working with an architect from the beginning, but not during CA because of his own experience at the CA meeting, the construction phase. So, he said, he chose not to work with an architect because he could handle that phase himself.
He did say though (it was in there) that there were a couple of times when having an architect along the way could have been helpful. So, architect's prerogative, to pull that little statement out and underline and say that even when you are a pro, it's a role for a reason. It's a job we do for a reason. It doesn't mean that he can't do it even if he's a pro, it just means that it's a whole other role for a reason.
Taylor Davis (50:38):
And it's not duplicative. I think that's another thing to sort of reiterate to homeowners, that a lot of times people think that if the contractor is there and they're meeting with the contractor, that having the architect on the site is just somebody else that they're paying for that's saying the same thing that they don't need to pay for, and that's your prerogative.
I mean, that's fine, but the role in and of itself isn't duplicative, it's a third party on the site. It's somebody who's acting on your behalf and is your representative in the field. And so, I think that's an important distinction and one I want to make clear to homeowners when they're talking to your architects — they're not trying to sell you on like we want to do the same thing your GC is, we actually don't actually ever want to do the same thing-
Marilyn Moedinger (51:27):
No. And that's not our role and that's not-
Taylor Davis (51:29):
It’s not our job.
Marilyn Moedinger (51:30):
Also, the architect is there to be an advocate as you're describing, but also to help interpret what's going on. So, when we're on the site and we're looking as an architect when I'm walking the site and I'm seeing things, I'm like, oh, well this looks like a total mess, but it's actually not a problem at all because I know exactly what they're up to, where I look at something else and I'm like, that looks like a total mess. And it is a total mess and we need to address that. So, we have that experience to be able to do that.
And I think that even if you have a lot of experience in the industry, like Scott does, it's still important to have someone who no matter what, you can say, “Hey, can you take a look at that or what do you think about this or the contractor said this and that, what do you think?”
Because his other point about working with a team who specializes in what you're doing, so hit on his professional side, he does workforce housing, he doesn't do custom individual residential housing. So, it's very close, but it's still not the same thing. And having that team of people who specialize in what you're trying to do means you're going to get better results.
Taylor Davis (52:31):
A hundred percent. That was a great guest.
Sheri Scott (52:33):
And especially when it is your own personal project. I think that sometimes you have blinders on when it comes to your own project and to have that person, whether that's the contractor or the architect or someone that you trust that's going to going to have your back.
Marilyn Moedinger (52:50):
A hundred percent.
Sheri Scott (52:50):
The other thing that he mentioned that he loves about his house is the design of it, the exterior design and the style, which is great. I just love to hear that.
Marilyn Moedinger (53:02):
Well, and the timelessness of it to say every time you pull up to your house, you just like, “I love my house (laughs).”
Sheri Scott (53:10):
Yeah, yeah and for different reasons. He loves it because it's timeless. I mean, we do a lot of modern architecture, and I hope-
Marilyn Moedinger (53:19):
Which can also be timeless.
Sheri Scott (53:19):
I know. Which I hope that people feel the same about that. Like it doesn't have to be traditional to be timeless.
Marilyn Moedinger (53:27):
That’s exactly right. I think we should end on that note.
Taylor Davis (53:31):
That's a good note.
Marilyn Moedinger (53:33):
(Laughs) Mic drop.
Taylor Davis (53:35):
Thanks for joining us on Home: The Second Story. If you'd like to come on the show and share your story, please email us at admin@htsspodcast.com, we'd love to have you as a guest. For more inspiring homeowner stories and tips, we'll see you next time.
[Music Playing]
Voiceover (53:49):
Thanks for listening to Home: The Second Story Podcast. Feel free to share this episode with a friend. Contact information for all three of our architects are in our show notes, and don't miss future episodes. Follow or subscribe to our show for free in Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you're listening right now.