This is Taylor's final episode on Home: The Second Story, and we use the moment to pull together the biggest lessons we have heard across roughly 40 conversations with homeowners.
Call your architect or designer early, before you think you need one. Waiting too long often leads to surprises, disappointments, or expensive compromises. Also, architects do far more than draw plans. We help test whether a project is even viable, weigh tradeoffs, organize decisions, and guide clients through the emotional and practical side of the process.
We talk about getting the big decisions right first, including site, scope, budget, and how a family actually wants to live, because mistakes in those areas ripple through the entire project. We also make the case for letting your team be creative. When clients leave room for exploration, problem solving, and professional judgment, better ideas often emerge.
Finally, we stress that a home does not need to be perfect to be deeply loved. The projects that feel most successful are not flawless. They are the ones that support real life and reflect what matters most to the people who live there.
We then turn to what Taylor is focusing on next: designing homes for older adults and for people who need homes that are more flexible, accessible, and supportive over time. Aging in place is not just for very old homeowners. It matters for people recovering from injuries, living with illness, adapting to sudden physical changes, or simply wanting a home that works better for daily life.
Taylor explains that good accessible design should be beautiful and often invisible. Wider doors, curbless showers, better circulation, integrated grab bars, and thoughtful planning can make a house easier to live in without making it feel clinical. We also talk about the emotional side of these conversations. Rather than framing design around decline or limitation, we frame it around freedom, dignity, hospitality, and the ability to keep doing what you love.
We wrap up with both a farewell and a statement of purpose. We celebrate Taylor’s contribution to the podcast, and we leave with a strong reminder that good residential design is about making life better, now and later.
More: Taylor's website: https://tpdarchitect.com/
Taylor's Aging in Place Services: https://tpdarchitect.com/services/#aging-in-place
(00:00) Intro
(02:00) Reflecting on lessons from 40 episodes
(03:45) Tip 1: Call your architect early
(05:20) Tip 2: Use your architect for feasibility and decision making
(08:19) Tip 3: Get the big decisions right first
(13:10) Tip 4: Let your team be creative
(21:43) Tip 5: Let go of perfect
(27:13) Taylor’s next chapter: designing for aging in place
(32:49) Why accessible homes matter in emergencies too
(37:02) Designing for hospitality, dignity, and everyday usability
(44:23) How to talk about aging and accessibility in a positive way
(47:55) Taylor’s thanks and farewell
(51:39) Outro and where to follow the podcast
Taylor Farewell
Speakers: Marilyn Moedinger, Sheri Scott, & Taylor Davis
[Music playing]
Voiceover (00:02):
Everyone says how horrible it will be to renovate or build your house, we're here to say it doesn't have to be that way. Join three seasoned architects as they interview homeowners who recently completed a large project and ask them one simple question: what do you know now that you wish you knew before you started?
Welcome to Home: The Second Story Podcast.
Taylor Davis (00:27):
Hi, and welcome to Home: The Second Story. We're three residential architects sharing real conversations with homeowners who've taken on custom home or renovation projects. I'm Taylor Davis from TPD Architecture and Design in Birmingham.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:39):
I'm Marilyn Moedinger of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and Boston, Massachusetts, of Runcible Studios fame.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (00:45):
And I am Sheri Scott at Springhouse Architects in Cincinnati, Ohio. And today, we are actually joined by our very own Taylor Davis (laughs). Taylor is here today as her last podcast with us.
Marilyn Moedinger (01:05):
It's so sad.
Sheri Scott (01:07):
I know, it is so sad. But she is moving on to great things, and we're so happy that she has been here as long as she has, and we're so excited for you for what you're moving on to, which we will get into in a little bit.
But we thought it would be nice, Taylor, to bring you on here and have you be the star of the show, and maybe you could share-
Marilyn Moedinger (01:36):
Taylor's always the star of the show.
Taylor Davis (01:38):
No.
Sheri Scott (01:39):
I know. She's got the best stories.
[Laughter]
And maybe you could share some takeaways or pieces of advice for our listeners that we've done. I think you've done 40 episodes with us, so there's quite a bit of advice in there.
Taylor Davis (02:00):
So, first, I just want to thank everybody for listening, first of all, and for seeing us through this first season of our podcast.
And I want to thank Marilyn and Sheri, in particular, for letting me be a part of this because I think there is so much good that has come out of these conversations and so much that's valuable to homeowners.
And I feel incredibly privileged, one, to be friends with the two of y'all; and two, to have been part of the beginnings of what I know will be an extraordinary and long-lasting podcast to be talking about some of the stuff that we've been talking about up to this point.
And I know there's going to be new issues and new guests and what people bring to the table. So, I'm just grateful to have been a little part of it here at the very beginning, and I am so looking forward to seeing what happens next.
But that said, I was reflecting on these 40 episodes and what we've discussed and who we've talked to, and I think one of the things that's interesting — and I know all of us have done this.
There have been conversations that we've had with homeowners or clients that have come to us, and we have been able to say, “Oh, you should listen to this podcast because we just talked about this like two weeks ago. Go listen to this.”
So, there's definitely lots of information that I think is really valuable, and it's a resource for folks. The stuff that I have tended to repeat to homeowners that I've been in contact or had conversations with or been at cocktail parties with or whatever has boiled down to a few things.
I think the first one (and I want y'all to chime in on this too) is to call someone early. Is that waiting too long and getting too far ahead of yourself will create situations where there are A, surprises, or B, disappointments.
Marilyn Moedinger (04:05):
Taylor, tell me what you mean by “call someone early.” What does “early” mean?
Taylor Davis (04:10):
Before you think you have to. Before you think you need an architect or you need a designer, I think that's the time to call. When you first have the initial question in your head, “Can I do this?”
This sort of bleeds into my second point because I think that's right. You don't know what early is until it's late, I guess, really. But that said-
Sheri Scott (04:34):
But that's also true, Taylor; not only beginning a project, but we've also discussed when a problem comes up or a question comes up during your project to call early, to ask questions. And when it comes up, do not let it fester or sweep it under the rug.
Marilyn Moedinger (04:57):
Yeah. And also, some people think that they need to have the answer. They're like, “Well, I'm coming to you, and here's exactly what I want to do.” And they're like, “I don't want to talk to you yet because I don't know exactly what I want to do.”
I'm like, “What do you think I do?” (Chuckles) I help you figure out what it is you want to do, so you don't have to have it figured out. That's literally my job.
Taylor Davis (05:20):
And this leads into my second point, which I think is another really critical piece of what residential architects can do. We can actually help you figure out whether a project is even feasible or if you want to do the project.
So, it's not just about us having decided that we're going to do X. We can be helpful stepping in whether or not X is even a viable proposition.
I just worked with a client the other day to come up with a matrix of how they can make decisions about whether or not a project is viable. So, what are the pros and cons? What's the information that's lacking?
We're really trained to help folks organize that process, and that process can be valuable before there's even a project to start drawing. So, we are more than just artists who draw and are creative thinkers and know a lot about waterproofing.
[Laughter]
We are actually like strategic planning gurus who can help figure out how to even begin to make decisions about whether or not to even engage in the process. And I would say we've all talked about this. Feasibility studies are part of what we do for all of our clients and the value of those.
I know we've had clients come in who have figured out that they had bought a site, figured it was the wrong site, and then had to switch gears, move to someplace else.
Having somebody be a part of that conversation at that, “Should we buy this site?” And “Can we build what we want to build on this site?” That's having a team member who is able to help you engage in a decision-making process that literally sets up the whole scope of work. So, that's kind of number two.
And I think one and two really go together. Call somebody early before you think you have to. But also, know that we can be very valuable as partners in a process much earlier than you might think.
Marilyn Moedinger (07:23):
And part of that decision-making process that we are helping with is (as I explain to my clients) I'm a decision Sherpa. I am helping you up the mountain of all of the decisions.
And that means I'm here to help you weigh the pros and cons, to make the list, to balance things out, to draw the Venn diagram, whatever we need to do – but also talk through the emotional side of why the certain decision.
Big decisions like whether we're moving forward with the project or not. We are choosing this contractor or that one. Big decisions or small decisions that can sometimes feel as big as the whole mountain. This tile or that tile.
And at that point, that decision fatigue is so real, it's so real. And there's literally hundreds of thousands of decisions that need to be made. And what are we doing? We're Sherpa-ing people through that. We've done it so many times. We know how to help people make those decisions; you're not on your own.
Taylor Davis (08:19):
That's been a point of clarity that I think has come through a lot of our guests, is that folks who have felt like their projects have been successful or felt settled about the decisions they made had some of that advice or something that was going along with them.
I know there's several guests, Sheri, that you came to the site with them and talked them through some of those things. So, that's, I think, a real takeaway for me. And it's something we do every day, but I don't think it's ever sort of been reflected back to me how valuable that can be to homeowners. We sort of take it for granted that that's what we do.
But having talked to folks who haven't had that part be part of the process or have had it be part of the process and be successful, that got reflected back to me over the course of the podcast that that's really valuable.
And Marilyn keeps teeing me off here because the next one I had on my list was kind of the rocks-in-the-jar approach to decision-making. It's like if you've got a jar that's a project, get the big ones in there because you're going to have to shoehorn those suckers in.
And those are going to be your decisions about scope, about site, about budget, about big-ticket items, about how your family lives for the next however many years you plan on living in the house, where the project is.
All of those are like those big boulders that you've got to shoehorn into this jar. And there are a certain number of them that have to fit. You have to be able to put the house somewhere. It has to have a site.
It's going to have to have a scope of work. There's going to have to be some sort of physical parameter associated with it. And it's going to cost some money.
[Laughter]
So, you need to figure out those big rocks and get those in that jar first. And the rest are really pebbles, and they can have a big or small impact. We've all been in situations where you put that extra ice cube in the glass and the whole thing kind of falls over. We don't want to get to that situation.
But if you've got those big, big decisions and you've got help putting those big decisions in those jars first, it's easier to fit the other ones in. And you'll know if you have room for them.
Sheri Scott (10:32):
Yeah, yeah. And that goes along with calling early. Sometimes clients will come to us, and they've made all of those big decisions already, and then we're scrambling a little bit.
An example for me: many years ago, I had a client come to me, and we spent a lot of time talking about what they wanted in the house, and every single room they described was filled with light, direct sunlight; they just were sun lovers.
And about halfway through the meeting, it came out that they already had their lot chosen and purchased. And they've had this lot for a couple of years. And so, we looked at it, and all of the public space, all of the public rooms where they're going to be really living as a family, are facing north (chuckles).
So, we spent most of that project design time figuring out how to essentially flip the living areas in the house. And it turned out beautiful and very nice, but it would have been so much easier if they'd bought one on the other side of the street (laughs).
And to make that big decision, if their main priority is sunlight, they made the wrong choice in that first decision.
Marilyn Moedinger (11:58):
And the thing is about those big decisions, getting them wrong, is you're just chasing them for the rest of the project.
Sheri Scott (12:04):
The entire project, absolutely.
Marilyn Moedinger (12:06):
And you're just having to spend more money, do more effort, and get a result that's not as good as you could have if you just would have made some big decisions better at the beginning.
And I think that's something that's really, really hard for people to understand sometimes. They understand it really, really well once they're in it, and they're like, “Oh, my gosh, I should have done this and that.” Which is, of course, the premise of this podcast.
[Laughter]
To uncover those things so that hopefully people who are embarking on a project do that part correctly. But there are so many times, and I can think of hundreds of examples where if I would have been there even a month earlier in the process, I would have been like, “Hold on, wait, okay, aah, don't do that.” Because if you do this, then that sets the course for all this other stuff. Then people don't realize that they've already hit the domino and all the dominoes behind it have fallen.
And I show up, and I'm like, “Whoa! Okay, well, now all these other things are off the table.” And that's frustrating for people to hear.
Taylor Davis (13:10):
Yeah, especially when the expectation is that everything is open to them throughout the whole process.
I think that's come up a lot, too, is that people have gotten hung up on something and either missed a big move that they could have made that would have changed an outcome or focused too much on a small thing, and that ended up not being the biggest part of the project.
I'm even going back to the custom lighting (chuckles). They ended up hating it, and they want to turn off all the lights all the time. So, I think that's something that's come out of this for me in particular. And those three things kind of really go with each other. Calling someone before you need to, understanding that the decisions aren't necessarily about design.
They could be a go or no-go decision, or this is a lot or this is not a lot decision that you need to be pursuing. And then those big decisions really do impact the rest of the project. So, those are my top three.
And then I would say four is let your people that you have hired be creative. You do not have to prescribe the answers. There is room for sparks of creative joy in every project. And it may be as little as a detail; it may be as big as moving a wall or creating an opening. But if you let them exercise what's naturally – or maybe not naturally, but what we are trained to do, there are opportunities that appear out of nowhere.
And I know Marilyn talked about this with a guest at least once, about during construction, we found an opportunity to do this. It could be that during demolition we find something that precludes us from doing what we thought we could do, and then we get creative and the answer turns out better.
So, I think letting your team do what they do best, don't hem them in. They're not trying to spend all your money all the time; they're trying to come up with the best result for you. And our creativity is not about artistic expression most of the time, it's about finding something wonderful that solves a problem or answers a question or creates something lovely.
All of our guests have left with something that they love about their homes. And some of that is because their architect or their design team was able to sort of do something extraordinary. And like I said, it could be the tiniest little detail. It could be wallpaper or color, whatever. But let them be creative. I think that's a big piece of what we've talked about.
Marilyn Moedinger (15:56):
That's huge. And I'm so glad you said that too, because if you've gone to the trouble of hiring a good team, you need to let them do what you hired them to do. And I remember my first big project after I opened my practice, so 12 years ago at this point.
And we're moving through the design process, and at one point he kind of stopped me in the middle of a meeting, and he was like, “I need to give you a piece of feedback.” I said, “Okay.”
And he said, “When I ask for your opinion, I want you to give it.” He said, “When I say this tile or that tile and you say, well, whichever one you like better is fine.” He's like, “I'm not paying for you to say whatever I want is fine. I'm paying for your opinion. If I would just do whatever I wanted, I would not bother paying you or hiring you.”
And that stuck with me. I was like, “Oh, right, I am here because I am supposed to be giving my opinion. I'm supposed to be giving my thoughts on this.” And sometimes the answer for which tile is literally, “They're both great.”
So, that's a little bit of a trivial example. But for bigger things where it's like, “Okay, do we put the window here where it lines up with the door and that creates a really nice moment? Or do we put it over here, which is better lighting for the room but kind of messes with the furniture layout?”
These are two different decisions, and there are some pros and cons to each one. That is something where we need to explain that, or we need to walk people through that. And we are supposed to have an opinion. That's our professional opinion on that.
And ultimately, it is up to the homeowner, unless it's something legal or code; then sorry, homeowners, that's not up to you unfortunately.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (17:49):
That's black and white.
Marilyn Moedinger (17:51):
That's law. So, anyway, that was a story from my early days that is very true. We are hired to provide our professional opinion. And not just opinion as in aesthetics, but this is what we advise. This is what, in our professional estimation, we believe is the best course.
Sheri Scott (18:11):
And you said that maybe tile is not that big of a deal, but we've talked a lot about decision fatigue and how many decisions have to be made. And sometimes, it is serving our clients just to say, “Do this tile, this is going to look the best.”
Because at that point, they're like, “Which tile? I don't know. There are 425 tiles over here.” And for us to, yes, just give our opinion, and obviously, the homeowner has the final say. But it really does help to have that guide and just to have an opinion, yeah.
Taylor Davis (18:48):
I think I've told my story. My dad's an architect. And so, I grew up sort of listening in on conversations. But I was also fortunate enough early in my career to get his feedback on a lot of the projects I was doing.
And I would, at the end of the day, if I had a question about something, bring a roll of trace and the plans. And he likes fat markers. And so, I'd bring him over to the house, and we'd sit at the dining room table with a glass of wine, and my favorite thing I ever heard him say was, “Okay, what if…” And those two words can open up so many doors.
And so, when you hear your designer say, “Okay, what if…” that's them iterating out loud or drawing out loud what's going on in their heads. And that, I think, for all homeowners, you don't have to do what the what if is.
And they may decide that the what-if sucks, too. That's fine. But be open to letting them go through that process because you may find some really wonderful opportunities and surprises on the backside of those two words.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:03):
And also, I say this all the time when I'm sketching with homeowners, and I'll say, “Oh, hold on, idea. I don't know if it's any good, but let's just draw it out.” Lines on paper are cheap. Lines on paper are cheap. It is cheap to explore this for five minutes.
And we can also eliminate options that way so that the “what if” isn't happening after you've moved in. Where you're sitting there in the living room going, “What if we would have moved this over there?”
And you don't have that because you thought it through earlier with the marker at the table, which is a fraction of the cost of (chuckles) doing the whole thing. So, I think that's important, too.
And allowing that process to unfold and giving enough time for that process is really, really, really important. That doesn't happen overnight when people say, “How fast can you make me a big set of drawings? How fast can you draw it up?”
I'm like, “Well, it doesn't exist yet. We have to think through these options.” And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not about speed. This is about to be your house; you're going to live in it for a long time.
Don't you think it's better to take an extra month or two now to get it right? To say “what if” now, with the marker, instead of “what if” later, when you're sitting at your kitchen counter going, “What if we would have split the kitchen? That would have been better, maybe.” (Chuckles).
We don't want the “what if” to happen at the wrong point.
Taylor Davis (21:27):
No, you don't. But I love those words. I love those words when coupled with a big fat Pantel poster pen.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (21:35):
Here's mine right here, look.
Taylor Davis (21:36):
Yeah, they're the best.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (21:37):
It's right here. Sign pen.
Taylor Davis (21:43):
So, I think that's my number four. And then number five … and we've said this on the podcast a lot. And I think it comes back to the fact that we've asked at the end of every podcast, “What's one thing you love about your house?”
I would say let go of the idea of perfect. Because it doesn't have to be perfect to be lovable. It doesn't have to be perfect to feel like a wonderful space for you and your family to be in. It doesn't have to be perfect for it to function all the ways that you want it to function too.
Could something always be better? Heck, yeah. That's part of our existence. Our raison d'etres is improving things. My husband will not go on house tours with me ever. Because all I do is say, “Well, if somebody had done that …” I mean, we're always trying to improve things.
[Laughter]
But the truth is that perfect doesn't exist. Perfection doesn't exist. And if your expectations are that it's going to be perfect and it's going to be perfect forever, that's not realistic.
And you need to give yourself the grace to have a product and an end product that you love. That should be the qualifying factor. Something that you are thrilled with and happy with and that serves all your needs and does the things that you want it to do. That's the qualifier. That's why we end the show on this.
We don't ask, “Why is your house perfect?” We ask, “What's one thing you really love about your house?” And so, I think letting go of that standard is healthy. It’s just a life lesson. But particularly in construction, I think that's something that I would take away.
And to a fault, everybody, regardless of how tragic their story was and how difficult their construction process was (they had four contractors, it went over budget by 100%, and they found all sorts of stuff they didn't expect to find), they all had something that they loved, and none of them regretted having done the project.
Sheri Scott (23:47):
Yeah, and you're right. There is no perfect project. And you can't ever get everything that you want. There just are compromises along the way. Whether it's for budget, for size, or for the existing home that you bought.
There are so many things that limit you. And it goes back to those decisions. Making good decisions with what you have and what you can afford, and it can be an amazing project. It can be great, just not perfect.
Marilyn Moedinger (24:20):
Yeah. And I think also there are two ways to look at perfect. And I think “perfect for you” is a better way to think about it. At some point (and I say this to my clients all the time), I look them in the eye, and I say, “This is your house. What do you want? What matters to you?”
So, I can tell you all these things about best practices or “here's what we often do” or whatever. But if you are going through the process of a custom home, then it should be as perfect for you.
Which means that some people say, “Well, I don't want a dining room, I don't need that.” Even though, on paper, custom homes have a dining room, or whatever the case may be – on paper, you have to have a double vanity in the primary bath.
But “Oh, my goodness, we have to have one.” Well, some people don't want that. And it's perfect for them to not have the double. So, that's the process of a custom home. You get to question all those things because it's about what works for you.
We've done all sorts of things that would be really terrible for the next client but are perfect for that client. Turning a whole basement into a machine shop. Most clients are not interested in that. But for this client, perfect (laughs).
Is it perfect for you? And I think focusing on that and focusing on getting the big moves right. And then the other part of perfection, to me, is understanding — and we did a whole episode on this about quality.
So, building materials exist in the real world, they move. If you're using natural materials or even plastic materials and vinyl and whatever, things are real. So, everything isn't like an AI rendering all the time. There's funkiness sometimes, especially in old houses.
So “perfection,” that expectation needs to be dialed in to the reality of working with materials in the real world. And sometimes that actually yields opportunity for character. So, when things are too “perfect,” it looks like an AI rendering.
But we work on historic homes all the time, and we sort of leave some of that quirk in there because that tells everyone that it's an old house and that that character can't be bought. It can't be manufactured.
That patina of 150 years or 200 or even 300 (that's our oldest house) … 300-year-old house — you can't invent that. So, we don't want to remove that.
Sheri Scott (26:57):
So, Taylor, those were five really good tips that you culled over those podcast episodes. So, what are you moving on to?
Taylor Davis (27:13):
Well, it's a little bit of moving on, and it's a little bit of diving in. I think, as you two both know, and maybe some of our listeners know because I have pulled out my soapbox from time to time – designing for folks in the second half of their life has really been a passion of mine for a while.
We started working with older couples probably almost 15 years ago. I probably did my first curbless shower 12 or 13 years ago. And that was when we started really doing research on what it meant to design for older adults.
We're CAP certified, which is Certified Aging in Place specialists, through the National Association of Home Builders. So, we all go through training and continuing education.
But what that's allowed us to do is dive into conversations with physical therapists and occupational therapists, and talk about specifics associated with particular phases of life or particular conditions that folks have as they get older.
And making sure that the homes that we are designing are either for that particular homeowner or (I'll talk about this in a few minutes) expanding that available pool of good houses for people to age in.
Those accommodations are built in. That there's enough accessibility and flexibility to have somebody be able to age in a place if they have Parkinson's, or if they have mobility issues, or if they have arthritis, or if they have dementia.
What are the kinds of things we need to be thinking about so that the homes we work on are appropriate? And on that same page (not on the flip side), are also beautiful. We want these things to be invisible. We talk about invisible accessibility a lot. So, we don't want the grab bar to stick out like a sore thumb in the bathroom, we want it to be hidden. We want to create accommodations that you wouldn't know are there.
And so, over the past few years, we've really been diving into this very, very intentionally. We've done some senior living projects. And I think as this practice moves forward, one of the things we're really going to be focusing on, and what I'm going to be focusing on, is talking about this more frequently, being a part of conferences, and potentially podcasts down the road that talk about this very specifically.
What does it look like to design for older adults? It puts us in a space where people are talking about longevity and wellness, which I think is really important. And we can do all sorts of things. And if you want red-light therapy and cold plunges, more power to you. But if your house doesn't work, it doesn't matter how much red-light therapy or cold plunges you do.
If the doors aren't wide enough, if there's too many steps, if you don't have the space for an elevator, if the plugs are too low and you're wrenching your back every time you reach to plug something in, then that's a problem.
So, we are really going to be pivoting, I think, into more of that space. So, hopefully you'll see TPD in that realm a little more frequently. And that’s part of why I’m not going to be in this space and on this screen, is that I really am going to be pivoting, I think, more into being very focused on that segment of the population and designing very particularly for them.
So, all of the lessons that we've learned and we've talked about and all of the episodes that we've done and all of the work we've done still matter. The process is the same, but some of the specifics change a little bit.
Because I fervently believe that (well, pause, take out soapbox, stand on soapbox) all of our houses should be designed with these kinds of things in mind. Part of the reason we are in the situation we are in right now is there aren't enough options.
Senior living shouldn't be an option for everybody. There are people who can age well and for a long time in their own homes. But if the houses that we are building or we're remodeling preclude that, then all we're doing is adding to the problem. We're not creating enough spaces.
So, this is a broad issue. It cuts across all economics, all demographics. We all get older. Most of us at some point have some condition that we need some sort of physical accommodation for, at some point, whether it's temporary or permanent.
And so, making sure that the spaces that we design can’t add to the stress of those issues, that we aren't adding a layer of emotional challenge on top of a physical challenge, on top of the normal kinds of emotions that people feel when something like that comes up.
Whether you're dealing with an aging parent or it's something that's happening to you. We want to make sure that more homes are available and don't add to that stress, don't add to that challenge.
Sheri Scott (32:49):
I think that is so important, Taylor.
Taylor Davis (32:53):
Clearly, it's a particular passion of mine. I’m going to Phoenix next week for the Environments for Aging Conference, where I will continue to learn and ask lots of questions. But it's really important to me. I just had some conversations last night that sort of reiterated that.
So, I’m grateful for the opportunity to be able to be involved in this, and having had the opportunity to sort of work in this space already. It's been really, really gratifying, and I’m looking forward to doing more of it.
Sheri Scott (33:23):
Yeah, it is critically important, like you said. We talk a lot about housing stock (chuckles) in our industry and how we really don't have enough housing. But what that housing is, is even more important.
And I’m sure all of us have examples. I know I've shared my example before of my mom, who, in an emergency, had a leg amputated, and we had to scramble while she was in rehab to renovate her home.
And luckily, she was in a single-story home, and we could have widened the hallways, which would have been even better, but that was not an opportunity in the time we had, but there were a lot of things we did.
We had to totally redo the bathroom. She literally could not have gotten into one bathroom in her home. So, either we were looking at putting her in a nursing home, and she's way too young for that. And (chuckles) just so many decisions had to be made so quickly, and it was stressful.
Taylor Davis (34:35):
With the trauma of medical decisions on top of it.
Sheri Scott (34:40):
With the thing happening, right. So, it's not only a matter of the people that are aging gracefully and just getting older in their home (which is lovely), but there is the emergency aspect of it too.
Marilyn Moedinger (34:57):
I think that's a really important thing to bring up. And as you mentioned your mom saying she's too young for a nursing home, this issue of aging in place is also not just — and Taylor, you’ve touched on this a couple of times in what you said, and you've touched on it before.
That there's the sense that it's like, “Okay, this is for really old people who want to stay in their house for three more years.” It's like, “No.” A year ago, I injured my Achilles, and I was in a hard cast, and I couldn't use my shower because I had to keep my leg out of the water (laughs).
And I thought, “I’m so glad I have this tub.” And I had a seat in the tub, but I didn't have a grab bar in there, and I thought, “Wow, I really wish I would have a grab bar in here.”
And there I am, I’m young (whatever, healthy, all the stuff), and then in the blink of an eye, I go in to have something taken care of that's an old running injury or something, and they're like, “Ah, we're going to have to put you in a cast, and that's happening today.”
And I was like, “What?” (laughs). So, even with that, it's an emergency in the sense that like, “It's happening today, and you're going to walk out of here with a cast.” Walk … which I had to really figure out how to do.
And I think that experience — everybody has experienced this in some way or another. And it changed the way I thought about things. I've designed homes for people in wheelchairs who use mobility aids or whatever, who are of all ages.
So, I know we use the words “aging in place,” but I know there's other ways that you talk about it as well that are about making things accessible to everybody so that people can come over, so that my elderly relations can come over and be comfortable in my home when they're visiting and when it's Thanksgiving, and all these kinds of things. It's so much more of a gracious way to design.
Taylor Davis (37:02):
It's nice manners.
Marilyn Moedinger (37:04):
Exactly. It’s manners, it's hospitality, it's all these things. And when I’m working with my homeowner clients on this kind of stuff and we're doing a deep renovation, we're doing these historic homes, and there are not always options to do whatever we want, but we're still thinking about that.
And when you put it like that and you're not like, “This is about aging and bad things and whatever.” And sometimes it can feel like people are like, “Oh, I don't want to think about that.” You're like, “No, let's put this in a more positive light.”
And you're so good at that, at putting it in a positive light, helping people see the positive side of this so that everyone can come to your house. It's gracious hospitality so that your home is beautiful.
I regularly send people to your website and say, “This is what an accessible bathroom looks like.” Get the image out of your head of a hospital.
Taylor Davis (37:56):
Please don't google it. Whatever you do, don’t google it.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (38:02):
Go to Taylor's website and see. These grab bars, they match the décor. Like Kohler, everybody has grab bars that match everything now. It's not a hospital.
Taylor Davis (38:16):
We met with a British fabricator of high-end plumbing fixtures. And usually, those super high-end manufacturers don't include grab bars in their suite. And so, I asked the question at the end of the presentation. He had come, he was from Birmingham, England, it was lovely.
Marilyn Moedinger (38:38):
Birmingham, England, (you’re) from Birmingham, Alabama.
Taylor Davis (38:40):
I know the parallels were crazy.
[Laughter]
Anyway, so he came, and he had this whole suite, and it's a brass factory, and they've been doing it for 200 years. They had all these custom finishes, and I was like, “I’m going to ask a question.” I was like, “You've got drawer hardware, you've got doorknobs. You've got plumbing fittings. You've got all the things. Do you have grab bars?” He's like, “Absolutely, we have grab bars.”
So, this is becoming something that you can get at Home Depot, which I don't recommend, but it is crossing all the levels of construction. If you google it, you will see images that look like rehab facilities. Just don't. And it will be terrifying, and it will make you think that you are going to end up in what looks like a hospital house, and that's not what we design.
It is about it being invisible, you don't know it's there until you need it. A doorway is a really good example. You don't know you need a bigger doorway until you're trying to fit something through it.
Whether that's a wheelchair, an antique armoire, a pumpkin seat that you're carrying on your arm with a baby. All of those things matter, and it doesn't really cost any more to do a 36-inch door. It just really doesn't, so just do it (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (40:05):
I think that's the bottom line when it comes to many of these design moves. It’s like a 36-inch door is actually great when you're carrying a basket of laundry, when you're wrestling kids and wrangling kids out the door, when you're just living life.
And also, proportionally, it's nice to have nice big doors and just have a little bit of breathing room. So, I think a lot of these things are … like a grab bar in the shower looks really nice when it matches everything else, so you hang a washcloth on it. And it looks like a little towel bar, and it's fine.
I think it just sounds really overwhelming to people. And the truth is that there are really simple things that can be done. Especially (going back to your five things you mentioned) if you start with it early.
If somebody calls you and they're like, “Well, we're finishing construction on our new renovation next week, we'd love to have you come through and point out some things we can do for aging in place.”
You’re like, “You should have called me a year ago.” It's too late for … we can still do some things, and here's some advice, but thinking about that stuff early means it'll be way easier, and it's just naturally part of the process.
Taylor Davis (41:15):
If you don't do it early, that's when it looks like a hospital because of the emergency solution. So, we've had a client call in whose daughter had a second tear of an ACL from a cheerleading injury.
And they wanted to redo the bathroom, and I was like, “Well, that takes months.” We can't just make a curbless shower overnight. You can't just take it out. It doesn't work that way.” And so, they ended up with a little mini lift.
And this was like a 17-year-old that they had to put in – and it looked terrible. But it was that emergency situation that dictated the look that made it look like a hospital space. Not because it was something that had been thought through ahead of time.
And if there was a room in the house that was available, then they wouldn't have had the issue to begin with.
Marilyn Moedinger (41:58):
I agree. It's like so many other things that we talk about. It's the same principles.
Taylor Davis (42:04):
Same principles. So, that's really where I’m headed, and where hopefully y'all will see my name. Not bright lights, but medium lights.
Marilyn Moedinger (42:16):
Medium lights. Tasteful lights. Taylor-style lights.
[Laughter]
Taylor Davis (42:19):
Lovely, lovely lights.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (42:24):
That's great. I’m sure we will see your name all over the place, and I will say, especially as an architect, to learn from you. I hope that you do teach people how to do it. Not only each individual homeowner as you work with them, but I think that you will end up on a bigger stage that will teach more of the industry and just make it better for everyone.
Taylor Davis (42:54):
I’m not proprietary about this – the more people that do it, the better everyone is, and we end up with folks who aren't having to make hard phone calls, who aren't having to have emergency construction, who aren't having to make hard decisions on top of harder decisions.
I don't want to be proprietary. I want to talk about it a lot, so I'll take that megaphone out from time to time.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:21):
Can I ask a question as we're maybe bringing the plane in for landing here?
Taylor Davis (43:25):
Yes.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:26):
We here understand that aging in place and designing for all for accessibility and for usability of all abilities is really important. There's an emotional component, though, to this conversation, and I know because we've worked together on projects, Taylor.
The emotional component of somebody not wanting to talk about these kinds of things because it's pointing to their aging or it's pointing to a deteriorating physical condition that they have that they don't want to think about or that's not fun to think about.
But we're there saying, “Hey, you do need to think about this.” Whether it's a condition that is going to continue to deteriorate or whatever.
How can families and/or designers have those … how can we better have those conversations and facilitate those conversations so that good things can come out of those hard conversations?
Taylor Davis (44:23):
Oh, my gosh, I so love that question. Because I've had people respond to my thrive-at-home consultation process, which was talking about aging in place. And they came back to me and they're like, “Do you think I’m getting old?” They're like, “I’m so offended that you would send me this because you think I’m getting old.”
So, just even the word “aging” has all of these connotations. Much less if you have any sort of condition that exacerbates mobility challenges. So, I think the critical thing to focus on is what are these things going to allow you to do?
Focus on the positive, not what does this condition require you to do. Does it require you to have grab bars because you have some mobility issues? Does it require you to have a lower sink somewhere?
But what is this going to allow you to do? Let's think about it from a positive perspective. This is going to allow you to sit at your vanity and put on your makeup with this gorgeous, lit mirror, and you haven't been able to do that in 20 years.
This is going to allow you to take a shower unassisted. This is going to allow you to continue to cook for your family in this kitchen and provide them meals, which is your love language. So, focusing on the positive outcomes of those things are can help people see it in a little bit of a different light.
If I make this investment, this is what this is going to allow me to do. This is going to support the things that I already love. Even if it's dumb stuff like choosing a material that has less maintenance associated with it.
And people are like, “Oh, that's a higher capital cost.” I’m like, “Well, that's going to keep you from getting on a ladder and clearing out the gutters so that you can go play golf on Saturday afternoons.”
So, I think framing it in terms of the positive outcome of making that choice, of making that investment, can help redirect the conversation from “Here are the things that are happening to me and here's what my limitations are.”
If you can redirect away from the limitations, I think that's generally a really positive way. And I think what I've been witness to (especially going to this conference) is seeing how senior living folks do that really, really well.
They talk about the positive outcomes of being in a community. They talk about the clubhouse; they talk about the exercise space. They talk about all the things that are a positive outcome of making the investment of being there.
And I think we as architects, particularly in single-family residential, have to do a better job of communicating those positive things.
Marilyn Moedinger (47:02):
Yeah, absolutely. And I think another group of professionals that understands this really well is people who help with estate planning. Thinking about writing a will means that you're admitting (chuckles) that you're going to die. Which, by the way, none of us get out of here.
[Laughter]
That's what's going to happen. But nobody likes to think about it. But if you do, and you have your ducks in a row, then everything else will be easier for your spouse, for your family, for your kids, for whoever, and for yourself too.
So, I think as you're talking about that, it's like “Yeah, it's kind of like, well, nobody likes to go and write their will and get that organized,” but what that allows you to do, or what that … is a gift to your family, and it’s a focus on the positive, so I really like that.
Taylor Davis (47:55):
So, I want to give just a quick (I promise I'll be fast) — I want to say thank you again to Marilyn and Sheri, and wish y'all so much luck and joy and love as you move and lots of laughter.
And even if you don't have my stupid stories on the side, I’m sure you'll have plenty of your own. You'll just have to fill the void.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (48:13):
We'll never be able to fill the void, Taylor.
Taylor Davis (48:17):
But I have such high aspirations for the two of y'all with this thing because it is such a great opportunity to communicate what doesn't get communicated to homeowners, what people don't talk about, what people don't know.
And pulling back the curtain, and y'all are the best people I know to do that. Y'all, if you're listening to this, there are no two more skilled residential architects that I have ever met than these two.
So, everybody who's listening, keep listening, share it with your friends because there's such great stuff that's happening here. And like I said, I’m so grateful to have been even a little bitty part of it.
Marilyn Moedinger (48:55):
Well, Taylor, thank you so much. You have not been a little bitty part of it. I'm pretty sure you're responsible for our name, first and foremost.
Sheri Scott (49:02):
Yes, that’s right.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (49:03):
You came up with that. And part of what's made this super fun (if we're taking a moment to just reflect on that) is having the three of us who are friends first, who met each other in a mastermind (whatever, 10 plus years ago, 12 years ago, at this point), and realized we have a lot in common. Not just professionally, but also personally. And to be able to spend this time on a project together is really fun.
Taylor Davis (49:28):
It’s been so much fun. And I will miss y'all so much. But you have another subscriber. Well, everybody in my family subscribes. But we will all be listening and looking forward to it. And maybe if you'll have me on, at some point, I can pop in and say hi every now and then.
Maybe if I get to do my own house, y'all can interview me at the end of that game. That's never going to happen. But whatever.
Sheri Scott (49:48):
There we go. You should do that.
[Laughter]
Taylor Davis (49:51):
Never ever going to happen, never.
Sheri Scott (49:53):
Well, thank you, Taylor. I will say from my side of it, I was kind of reflecting on this whole process, and truly, you have made me a better architect just from listening to your stories and the way that you treat clients, and it's something pretty special.
And I’m happy that we had this time together to talk about professional things. A lot of times, we get together and we talk about just our personal stuff, which is great, but here, we talk about all of our professional things.
And I’m just always amazed at what a great architect you are and what a caring way that you treat your clients, and that you love what you do. And I’m just so happy that you get to focus more and just take it as far as you can, this whole aging in place. And I think you're going to do great things.
Taylor Davis (50:50):
Thank you. Love y’all.
Marilyn Moedinger (50:51):
I agree. And the thing is, Taylor, at the end of the day, it was really you who made the sacrifice to hang out with a couple of Yankees this long.
[Laughter]
I mean, let's be honest.
Taylor Davis (51:01):
If I don't hear a “y'all” dropped every now and then on this podcast, I will feel like my legacy has not been taken seriously.
Marilyn Moedinger (51:08):
I would like to say, as an honorary, I lived in central Virginia for 10 years. So, the y'alls come out for sure. So, yeah, my Virginianess can come out once in a while. But we'll miss you, especially your deep South vibes you’re bringing to our table.
[Laughter]
Taylor Davis (51:33):
Thank y'all, and I appreciate it. And I absolutely cannot wait to see what happens next.
Marilyn Moedinger (51:39):
Neither can we.
[Laughter]
Thanks for joining us today on Home: The Second Story. If you'd like to come on the show and share your story, email us at admin@htsspodcast.com. We'd love to have you as a guest. Be sure to rate and subscribe wherever you get podcasts and follow us on Instagram. For more inspiring homeowner stories and tips, we'll see you next time.
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