In this episode of Home: The Second Story, we sit down with Trevor from Pensacola, Florida, to unpack the highs and lows of building a custom home in the aftermath of COVID. What starts as a promising project—a new build on recently purchased land near the coast—soon evolves into a cautionary tale about mismatched expectations, supply chain chaos, and the essential need for a strong, consistent advocate throughout a construction project.
Trevor and his wife worked with a talented home designer to create custom plans and brought in an exceptional interior designer early in the process. She brought a fresh, California-inspired design sensibility that stood out in their market and became a trusted partner who helped them select and source materials, even attending appliance appointments and coordinating deliveries. Trevor repeatedly credits her as a key reason the project turned out beautifully, even after she had to move back to California midway through the two-year build.
From there, however, the experience took a more difficult turn. The builder, while experienced and locally respected, operated under a cost-plus contract during a period of rapid inflation and material delays. Framing costs came in far higher than expected, and estimates proved unreliable. As the project unfolded, Trevor quickly realized that important decisions—like window selection or flooring transitions—were being left to default industry standards unless he specifically intervened. Without detailed architectural drawings or consistent oversight, small details were routinely mishandled, including clunky floor trim, awkward material transitions, and sloppy exterior caulking.
A recurring theme throughout the episode is how much falls through the cracks when you don’t have someone on your team managing the details with authority. Trevor found himself constantly on site, trying to catch issues before they became permanent. He describes the burnout he felt in the final stretch, eventually handing off decision-making to his wife, who stepped up to finish the project. Looking back, he wishes he had hired an architect to serve as an advocate from start to finish—someone who could anticipate issues, handle coordination, and push for quality without relying on the homeowner to do it all.
Despite the difficult process, Trevor and his family are happy in their home now. They take pride in the guest spaces, the playroom with custom cabinetry, and the studio above the garage surrounded by oak trees. But he’s honest about the emotional residue: for a long time, being in the home reminded them of construction stress and mistakes. Over time, though, that has faded. His biggest takeaway? You need someone on your side. An advocate—ideally an architect—who can guide the entire process, manage expectations, and protect your vision from compromise.
00:00 - Introduction to the Episode
01:08 - Meet Trevor from Pensacola
03:00 - Home Designer vs. Architect
04:55 - The Standout Interior Designer
08:09 - Choosing the Builder
11:08 - COVID Supply Chain & Lumber Costs
13:11 - Budget Blowouts with Cost-Plus Contracts
16:18 - Window Selection Regrets
23:19 - Flooring, Transitions & Trim Issues
25:08 - Communication Breakdowns
30:48 - Lessons Learned and What Trevor Would Do Differently
34:45 - Favorite Rooms and Finishes
36:52 - Hosts Reflect on the Takeaways
Second Story Trevor
Speakers: Sheri Scott, Marilyn Moedinger, Taylor Davis, & Trevor
[Music Playing]
Voiceover (00:03):
Everyone says how horrible it'll be to renovate or build your house, we're here to say, it doesn't have to be that way.
Join three seasoned architects as they interview homeowners who recently completed a large project and ask them one simple question: what do you know now that you wish you knew before you started?
Welcome to Home: The Second Story Podcast.
Sheri Scott (00:26):
Hi, and welcome to Home: The Second Story.
We are three residential architects sharing real conversations with homeowners who've taken on custom home or renovation projects. If you haven't already, check out our first episode to hear more about us and why we're doing this.
I'm Sheri Scott from Springhouse Architects in Cincinnati, and I'm joined by my co-hosts.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:49):
I'm Marilyn Moedinger of Runcible Studios based in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and Boston, Massachusetts.
Taylor Davis (00:55):
And I am Taylor Davis of TPD Architect in Birmingham, Alabama. And today we are joined by Trevor from Pensacola, Florida.
Welcome to the show.
Trevor (01:08):
Hi, thanks. Thanks for having me.
Taylor Davis (01:10):
Well, we are glad you're here. And I'm always glad to have somebody who's kind of in my neck of the woods come on the show because the issues are clearer to me when we're talking about sort of high humidity weather affected by tornadoes, hurricanes, that sort of thing in those regions.
So, when we start out our episodes, we ask five quick questions to get our listeners oriented to your project and learn a little bit more about you. So, I'm going to blast those through quickly. Where is the project located?
Trevor (01:47):
It's in Pensacola. We bought some land during COVID, and then built right after.
Taylor Davis (01:54):
So, I'm going to ask a follow-up question. Is it coastal or is it inland?
Trevor (01:58):
It's not right on the water, but we can see the water's right down the road from the land.
Taylor Davis (02:03):
Okay, so right there. Not that there's that far inland in Pensacola, but anyway. Was the project a new build, an addition, or a renovation?
Trevor (02:10):
It's a new build.
Taylor Davis (02:12):
And when did you start and when did you move in?
Trevor (02:17):
2022, I think January, and then we moved in two years later, April 2024.
Taylor Davis (02:25):
And what is the size approximately and the style of the project?
Trevor (02:30):
The main house is 3,800 square feet, and then we have a little studio above our garage, which is like 600 square feet.
Taylor Davis (02:38):
Oh, how fun.
Trevor (02:39):
I'm not sure of the style. I actually was thinking about that and I have no idea.
[Laughter]
Taylor Davis (02:43):
That's fair. So, there are lots of different ways you can work with an architect; some folks just buy plans and some people work with an architect for full services from design all the way through construction. So, how did you work with an architect on your project?
Trevor (03:00):
Well, we actually worked with (I guess there's some differences here) a home designer who did a custom plan for us, and he was very good, we really liked working with him. So, it wasn't an architect. So, the level (and I'm learning really the difference now) of detail involved in what he produced for us was not at the level I'm sure that an architect provides. But he did a great job laying out the house and designing the home.
Taylor Davis (03:31):
Well, I'll let Marilyn take over. Thanks for giving us the lowdown.
Marilyn Moedinger (03:35):
Well, why don't we start with that. So, how did that process work? How did the design process work? And then as you got into it, how did you start making those decisions, the finishes and the things that the home designer was not providing for you, how did that work?
Trevor (03:52):
Well, the way we did it, we started from the outside, just what the house looks like, and that was a lot of you know looking at inspo pics, basically collecting kind of things we liked. And we just kind of vomited all that out at our home designer and said, “Here's our family size, here are our needs and wants,” and he kind of put it all together for us. So, he did a good job with that aspect of it.
And then when we get into the interior finishes and stuff like that, we also worked with an interior designer. So, she was excellent. She was our favorite person. She did everything she said she was going to do, and we were blown away with her.
Marilyn Moedinger (04:36):
Tell us more about that. Because I remember from our initial call- that came through loud and clear how much you really enjoyed working with your interior designer, and how when there might have been some bumps in the road (spoiler alert, we'll come to that), the interior designer was really helpful.
So, tell us a little bit about working with her and what was great about that?
Trevor (04:55):
First of all, she was very talented. So, she was a transplant from California, and she happened to be in town because her husband's military. And so, she was only here for a few years, but she helped design a coffee shop downtown, and we just noticed how the design was really good and we asked about who did it.
And then we were put in touch with her, and then she just really immediately stood out for just a great creative eye. She kind of had that California style, which we liked a little bit outside the box for our area.
And then just beyond that, she was very committed. She made sure that everything that we selected was shipped and delivered to us. Any problems that came up, she was always on it. I never had a question or anything that she was doing. So, it was one of those people that you can just really trust, and you know they're going to do what you want them to do.
Sheri Scott (05:57):
And at what point in the project did she come in?
Trevor (06:00):
She was very early. Maybe right after we'd finished kind of designing the layout of the home, I think that we met her. And I think we knew we wanted somebody because this was right on the heels of COVID, and so you had to order all of your appliances a year ahead.
So, as soon as we knew we had to start doing that, we were like, “Okay, well, we need help, picking all this stuff, and who are we going to get to do that?” And so, we were like we need someone like an interior designer and she helped with all of that. Went to the appliance place with us.
Sheri Scott (06:33):
And your home designer probably didn't even offer that service, right?
Trevor (06:35):
No, no. That's kind of where his services ended, was just producing the plans.
Marilyn Moedinger (06:41):
One question I have about that is, did your interior designer and your home designer ever have any sort of … was there any back and forth? Did the interior designer say, “You know what, the kitchen layout would be so much better if we rotated the island or if we turned or made this wall different?” Was there any back and forth like that between them?
Trevor (07:00):
None. No, actually. I don't think there were too many mistakes in that sense. There are some-
Marilyn Moedinger (07:09):
Or not necessarily mistakes, just opportunities that an interior designer might see.
Trevor (07:15):
Yeah, there wasn't a lot of back and forth, so I don't really know what that would've unearthed. Potentially some things for sure.
Marilyn Moedinger (07:22):
Sounds like you might not have needed that.
Trevor (07:24):
Yeah. I think that the designs really were well thought out. Because when we originally went to him, we were like, “Okay, I've seen these kinds of homes that we like design-wise, and then also here's some plans that I just feel like I like the way they did this.” And he was always just like, “We could do a lot better than that.”
[Laughter]
And I'm glad. I think people just don't realize how bad some of these pre-planned things are. Like you can do a lot better. And so, that's something we realized with him, which to his credit, he told us that, and he was right.
Marilyn Moedinger (07:58):
Well, how did you find him, and how did you realize that yourselves? Had you been through a project before and you knew you wanted to do something other than something off the shelf? How did that come about for you?
Trevor (08:09):
I think Pensacola's a smaller town, and so it's hard to find … I don't want to say really talented people at all, but just it's not a large market and there are other larger markets kind of close to us, so a lot of the talent gets drawn to them.
Taylor Davis (08:26):
Drawn down (Route) 30A a little bit (laughs).
Trevor (08:29):
So, I had seen this guy's work somewhere, and he was a younger guy and actually, we were friends as kids, so I kind of had a connection with him too. But I just reached out to him and I saw his work. Like he had designed some homes that I thought were better than most of the homes I was seeing under construction. So, yeah, that's kind of how it started.
Taylor Davis (08:51):
Did your designer lead you to a contractor? Did you know who your builder was going to be? How did that process work for you?
Trevor (08:59):
I actually found him independent of the home designer. I think he's kind of a known in the community. He's been a builder for a long time. So, he was doing work 30 years ago in the city. So, he had a reputation of just being around for a long time.
Taylor Davis (09:19):
So, I have one other question about the relationship with the builder and the designer. Did your designer have any communications, conversations with your builder prior to or during the construction process?
Trevor (09:31):
Some, yeah, not a ton. But a few times there were some conversations, mainly me being like, “Hey, what do you think about this potential change they want to do?”
Sheri Scott (09:42):
Did the interior designer interact with the contractor?
Trevor (09:47):
Yeah, yes. She was interacting with the contractor a lot, actually. I mean, mainly the project manager, but yeah.
Sheri Scott (09:55):
Interesting. So, how did the build go? How did it start out?
Marilyn Moedinger (10:01):
I feel like I want to say like Trevor, so far, everything sounds so great.
Taylor Davis (10:05):
Yeah. That's awesome.
Marilyn Moedinger (10:05):
Easy and perfect.
Trevor (10:08):
Yeah, I've covered all of the good now.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (10:11):
We're going to get to the juicy stuff.
Trevor (10:14):
I will throw out one, there's one other really standout great person in the project. We had a custom cabinet maker, old school guy. And my interior designer found him for us. She was like, “Let me find …” her father was a cabinet maker, and so she kind of knew what to look for.
So, she interviewed him, found him, and he was also standout, wonderful to work with. So, our cabinets are beautiful, thanks to him (chuckles). But after that, everything kind of drops off in terms of a fun project. I mean, I could talk probably forever about how …
Sheri Scott (10:54):
Let's talk about how the project kicked off. Was there anything instrumental there that kind of made you realize … and at what point did you realize “Oh-oh, we might be in trouble here?”
Trevor (11:08):
It was pretty quickly. I think we were right on the heels of COVID. COVID was still affecting the supply chain at this point. So, appliances were still a year out, windows were like six months out, even framing packages were delayed, and we also just happened to hit at the very peak of lumber right before they started dramatically coming down.
Marilyn Moedinger (11:30):
That was fun, wasn't it (laughs)?
Trevor (11:32):
Yeah. So, it was kind of like, “Well, if we wait six months, maybe we'll save some money.” But it was like, well, then we're waiting six months, and that would've created all these other problems. So, when framing came back like way more expensive than we thought, I was immediately like, “Okay, this is interesting.” Because that was one of the biggest upfront costs, was the framing package.
And so, that was a bit of a like, “Alright, this project's going to almost certainly go over budget,” and that proved to be true. But I wasn't aware, I think at the beginning until that happened where I was like, okay, these are just estimates (laughs) of costs.
Sheri Scott (12:13):
Oh, sure, yeah. What kind of contract did you have? Was it cost plus?
Trevor (12:18):
It was a cost plus, yeah. He actually, our builder and I'm not sure how common this was at the time, but because of the crazy inflation that was happening, he was only doing cost plus contracts at that time.
Sheri Scott (12:29):
Yeah, very common.
Trevor (12:31):
I have my own feelings about that. I understand why he did that. But I feel like one of the big takeaways was even if you're working with people who are high-quality and trustworthy, you really need to have aligned incentives, I think. And so, cost plus contracts, I think kind of take away a little bit of that incentive alignment because you can just go over too easily.
Sheri Scott (12:56):
Most of our contractors for any custom home always do cost plus, but there are some things … you learn the builders that are more responsible with that (laughs).
Trevor (13:11):
Yeah, that makes sense. I could see that. Because I talked to other builders who do the same thing, and they were telling me the difference in how they handle it, and I was like, “Oh, that would've been nice.”
Marilyn Moedinger (13:19):
There's also provisions you can put in the contract, so it's not just a blank check. But I also want to just say that when you're in the heat of battle like that, and it's post-COVID and you're trying to figure things out, things can unravel pretty quickly. So, it's understandable how quickly that can kind of, like I said, unravel, I guess.
Trevor (13:42):
And it did for us. It was pretty fast that we were like — I mean, we ended up being like I want to say 50% over budget so it was a significant amount.
Marilyn Moedinger (13:50):
Wow. 50, like “five-zero?”
Trevor (13:52):
Yeah. It was a significant amount of money, and some of that was us choosing things.
Marilyn Moedinger (13:57):
Sure. Like maybe adding things.
Trevor (13:59):
Yeah. But probably, maybe half of that if generous. So, maybe 25% over what it should have been. So, but whatever, you know.
Sheri Scott (14:08):
Do you blame that on COVID or do you think it was a bad relationship?
Trevor (14:13):
Well (laughs), I think the contractor could have done a better job with the financial side of it, which would've meant to me getting more — like there's no reason the framing quote couldn't have been accurate. You can get a very precise, easy framing quote.
So, the fact that that was off kind of indicated to me that he wasn't actually getting quotes, he was just going based on what he felt. So, that was kind of the first indicator to me that like, oh, he didn't actually do a lot of the …
Sheri Scott (14:47):
Oh, yeah. And during COVID, everything was changing so fast that you can't go by historical data. Still, I feel like still you can't, everybody needs to get real hard quotes, so yeah, interesting.
Trevor (15:02):
So, that was a big thing that happened pretty quickly. And then the second big thing that happened quickly was windows, selecting windows because we had to do that pretty soon. And we had all the sizes and everything, and it was like, “Okay, go select the windows.”
But I really didn't like the company we worked with, and Florida's already unique because of the hurricane, like the codes we have here, so the windows have to be crazy tolerant of wind. So, you basically have to buy impact windows.
But what ends up happening is the bigger window companies, they're making these huge plastic PVC windows that just … they're very not nice looking (laughs). So, I learned so much about windows in this process, like way more than I ever wanted to know (laughs).
But that is one thing I wish I could go back and be like I really should have talked to somebody who really understands windows. And it's not just reading the spec sheet, like there are different things you got to pay attention to that affect the light that comes in your home.
So, I wish I had an expert that would've helped me with that a little bit because I felt really kind of under the gun like you need to order these now so they're not delayed, but I didn't know what I was looking for.
Marilyn Moedinger (16:18):
I think that's where an architect does come in. Because that is kind of outside what an interior designer can do, literally outside.
[Laughter]
But yeah, you're right, it's a good point because if you're just looking at the spec sheet, that's one thing. But also, if you go to the manufacturer's showroom, which I encourage people to do so you can test out the windows and see how everything looks — at the same time that person is going to be telling you how great those windows are, and not necessarily helping you find the best product for the performance and the look that you're going for.
Trevor (16:56):
We didn't even have a showroom to go to, that's how out in the wild we were (laughs). But I learned so much about how thick the … I don’t know what you call them, but the surround of the window when you put them in how like-
Marilyn Moedinger (17:08):
Yeah, the sash.
Trevor (17:10):
Some of them, they're so thick, and then when they open, they're even thicker. So, you're losing a ton of visibility through your windows. So, that's something that you would immediately notice the difference if you're looking at it in person. By just ordering it from a catalog you don't have any idea. And then also the light reflectivity, whatever the UV blocking, it can really darken the light that comes in.
So, I remember when we first had them installed and were walking through the house and still framing, and just being like, “Oh, my gosh, it's so dark in our dining room now because we have these really efficient windows.”
But it was not necessary because they faced the back of our house, they didn't get a lot of sun directly into them, so just stuff like that that I felt an expert would've helped us avoid. And they weren't cheap windows, and these are impact windows, so it's always frustrating.
Marilyn Moedinger (18:06):
It also sounds like you are a detail-oriented person. Like you're noticing these things where maybe a lot of people would not walk into that room and say, “Oh, it feels a little dark in here. Oh, look at the size of the rails or the styles or the sashes or whatever.” So, it sounds like maybe you're a little more dialed into some of those details and seeing some of those details.
Trevor (18:28):
Yes, yes. That's why I drove everyone crazy (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (18:32):
No, you're allowed to do that. It's your house (laughs).
Trevor (18:37):
I did notice all that kind of stuff. Yeah, it was very frustrating for the project manager (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (18:45):
I don't know, you're allowed to want things to be the way you want them.
Trevor (18:48):
Thank you. Thank you for validating me (laughs). I appreciate that.
Marilyn Moedinger (18:53):
I mean, especially if you're getting into the specifics of windows like that. I mean, what I haven't heard you say is something like, “I expected the windows to be 20 feet long with no … whatever.” Like you're not asking for things that are crazy, you're just wanting to understand how things function or what the impact of the decisions are going to be on the space, and that is totally allowed and encouraged (laughs).
Sheri Scott (19:17):
And I'm curious, how did your builder handle selections, the windows, and then all of the other decisions you had to make? Was it a situation where basically he gave you a list and you had to go find everything, or did he walk you through the process?
Trevor (19:34):
Pretty much, it depended on the thing we were selecting, but for the most part it was, we had to find everything. I mean, even like flooring, I mean (laughs), I looked at probably over two dozen wood flooring samples, and we ended up not using any of them. And I just called my designer who had, at this point, already moved back to California because the project was so delayed. It was supposed to be a year, and it was twice that.
But anyway, so I just emailed her. I was like, “Hey, we can't decide on the flooring.” She's like, “I know perfect flooring. I have somebody out in California,” and we had it shipped from California. So, the builder was not involved really in any of that. Our home designer was even connecting us with suppliers for everything, which made sense because she couldn't get the stuff that she wanted from local tile and flooring companies.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:29):
That's hard. So, the project lasted for two years instead of one, and your interior designer had to leave and go, like move.
Trevor (20:40):
And we had known she was leaving but we figured it would be after time-
Marilyn Moedinger (20:44):
You figured it'd be done. It sounds like that put more things on your plate during construction, that otherwise, would've been on your plate because she would've been there to handle a lot of it.
Trevor (20:53):
And she would've probably noticed things happening during — but I was there pretty much, and at that point, once the material selection … and she was still available to us remotely, but yeah. But I was on site every other day basically watching over things.
Marilyn Moedinger (21:12):
It's a lot of work.
Trevor (21:13):
It was a ton of work. And actually, near the end of the project, I was totally burned out, and I basically told my wife who wanted to be here today but couldn't make it today. She just took over. Because I was like, “I'm done, I can't make any more decisions.” And so, the last six months or so, she really stepped up and did everything. So that was really great. We kind of tag teamed.
Sheri Scott (21:35):
That's the best. Yeah, good.
Trevor (21:38):
So, it was okay with her doing that. That helped a lot.
Marilyn Moedinger (21:41):
Well, when we initially talked and I wrote a quote down in my notes, and you can tell me if it's okay to leave this in, but you had said that there was trauma in every room.
[Laughter]
I'd love for you to elaborate on that if you'd like to.
Trevor (22:04):
Oh, man. Well, it's like for the first year after moving in, it was not relaxing to be in the house. And there's always stuff that's not done or you're like, “Okay, we have to finish furnishing this room or whatever.” But it was almost like you're walking through this project that's taking two years, and now, you're just trying to live in it.
And so, there was a whole year where we were just on edge. And so, we'd go in the room and I just remember, man, we should have done that differently, and then … that was such a huge hassle for no reason. So, every room has little hard memories (laughs), but over time, we've kind of forgotten them and that's good (laughs).
Sheri Scott (22:50):
That is good.
Trevor (22:52):
So, there's still things that bother me, but not so many. But it was like in the process, I had to catch a lot, and be like, “No, don't do it that way.” So, that was a lot of work and it was very frustrating, but I'm glad I pushed for those things now.
Taylor Davis (23:09):
Could you give us an example of something that you're talking about? I think that's helpful for people to hear kind of the things that you were looking for as you were on the site walking through the project.
Trevor (23:19):
Oh, yeah. I can actually give you a perfect example. And it's a small thing, but I think it kind of is a good example of this. We have wood flooring in most of the house, we have like a little gym room that has rubber flooring, we have tile in the bathrooms, and we have like a brick flooring in the laundry room. So, we have some transitions between floorings.
And one of the things I noticed immediately that we didn't really talk about was that every one of those transitions, the builder will just with the wood and the tile, and then put a wood trim piece on top of it to settle down.
Marilyn Moedinger (23:56):
Like a saddle.
Trevor (23:58):
Yes, because that's the easiest thing to do. Takes no time, you’re not going to line anything up. And as soon as I saw that that was their plan, I was like, “We are not doing that in any room for any transition.” And it takes a little bit more work to use a little Schluter piece or even go flush, but it looks a million times better, and it doesn't take much more work.
It's just like just you have to do this. So, I just forced it. I was like, no, I don't want that on any single transition. So, that's a really good example of that dynamic, where it's like you have to specify because otherwise, they will do the thing that's just a little bit easier and quicker.
And it's like it's not that much more money, it's not that much more time, but you really got to know ahead of time, like, “Hey, this is how I want it.” So, that was one of the things that was happening as our interior designer was not here either. So, she probably would've caught that quicker. But I did see that, yeah.
Sheri Scott (24:56):
How did you communicate with your builder? Did you end up with written documentation or was it walking through once a week with him? Did you end up with some systems you that you cobbled together?
Trevor (25:08):
We would meet once a week and go through things. After a while, I wish I had done this consistently, which was email everything, everything in writing because I was just trusting him to remember. So, what I should have done is like, “Hey, great meeting. Here's a complete recap of everything you're going to do.”
And that way I have it like, “Hey, I told you to do this.” So, that's one thing I definitely would've done more consistently. I did it near the end because I was realizing things were falling between the cracks, but I wish I had done that the whole time.
Marilyn Moedinger (25:45):
Well, I mean, you want to trust your builder. It feels like maybe you are like, “Do I really have to rewrite this? Do I really have to?” But even with everyone with the best intentions, there's so many moving parts on a project that having things written down.
I'm famous for my meeting minutes, every week we do these exhaustive meeting minutes, and it's seriously one of the most mundane, but also crucial things that we do for that exact reason. Even when everyone has the best intentions and it sounds like there were enough hiccups that maybe it wasn't everybody having (laughs) the clearest path through. So, yeah, I want to underline that for our listeners, put stuff in writing.
Trevor (26:26):
Yeah, that's definitely a good tip actually, everything in writing. And what was another example of … oh, it seems like everything with transitions was always like a sticking point. Not a sticking point, but something to pay attention to, to elevate, like a baseboard is another good example. I had to be like, “Look, no shoe mold.”
And so, they want to put shoe mold on everything. Doesn't matter the order, they can put the baseboards in first, and then the flooring. But I was like, no, no shoe mold. So, then they had to put the flooring in first and then the trim, which isn't a big deal, that's totally normal. But again, it's one of those things you really got to know and insist upon it, and so that was another thing.
And then another one was (this is still a pain point) is we have all our windows, our beautiful, black windows, and we have white brick exterior. And I show up one day and they had caulked all of around the windows to seal them in … this is probably the last week before we move into the house, and it is just like the messiest, black caulk around.
And I saw it and I almost cried (laughs). Having that bad transition from one material type to another just completely destroys what you're trying to do. That was another thing. It's always the same. It's like some kind of some they put caulk really badly where they shouldn't or they put a piece of trim board to hide a floating transition, or they put a shoe mold, it's like little cheats.
Marilyn Moedinger (28:07):
And that stuff adds up in a house. And I think the last thing that anyone would ever want to hear is that you drive up to your house and feel like you're going to cry (laughs). But also, there's a good point in there about if you say something like please caulk that transition, that can either yield a beautifully caulked seam that does its job technically, but is also aesthetically properly done.
Or it can be like some guy with the caulk gun that's actually got the tip cut off like he's icing a cake, and it's just squirting everywhere with a spoon. So, I mean, I think that even in that sentence, caulk this transition, there's a wide spectrum of ability in there, and that's when it matters to have a good GC who's watching his guys (laughs).
Trevor (29:02):
And I remember when they did it, it wasn't even one of the window guys, it was just the helper they had there. And so, he just did it, and it's like, “Oh my gosh.” And yeah, it's like it needs to be caulked that it has to, I get that right. But you guys, like, you know, (laughs)-
Sheri Scott (29:20):
You can do it well.
Trevor (29:21):
There's a way to do that right.
Marilyn Moedinger (29:22):
Did they pull it out and fix it?
Trevor (29:23):
No, it's still there.
Marilyn Moedinger (29:24):
Oh, God, Trevor no.
Trevor (29:26):
I just don't look too close (laughs). If it were me, if I could do it, the windows are such a sore spot for me that I try not to think about it too much.
One thing I did do right is I didn't have — like when you have windows that … they're like casement windows so they open (gestures) like that. So, I didn't make every window operable. I was like, “Alright, let's just do the ones we really want to open.” And the one benefit of that is that they're the sash, I think you said, is much thinner.
So, the windows I didn't do that with, I'm like they look better overall than the other ones. The ones that open are like huge, bulky little things. So, I'm glad we did that. It wasn't even really the cost difference; it was just I liked the way they looked. They made the window bigger.
Marilyn Moedinger (30:16):
A little more elegant, a little more, yeah, exactly.
Sheri Scott (30:20):
So, Trevor, it sounds like it was a tough project that some of those things have lingered. For people that are listening to learn from your pain maybe, is there one point or one big decision you made that you wish you would have known something that you know now?
Trevor (30:48):
I'm not sure if there's one thing. I mean, I guess, one of the frustrations we have with building the home we have is like it's very beautiful, there's two things I think we could have done a little bit better. And I think we did 90% of everything, so I'm pretty happy with our outcome, but could have been less stressful.
But one thing we did wrong is I think we didn't build … not every room is built for the way we use it. And I don't know how you can predict that any better than we did. But I have a nice office, but I need to spend some time to make it really more functional. And we have a gym in our home, which is great, but it's pretty small. I wish we had made it a little bit bigger, so it was more fun to be in there.
So, it's things like that. But I think the overall, like if there's just one piece of advice, it would be, just, find somebody to help you who's on your side, and you completely trust to walk with you the entire way, because that will make the difference between being a terrible and great experience for you. You need an advocate who's on your side.
Without a doubt, the most important thing: I'll never build another home again without somebody like an architect who just is thinking about all these details and has their background and is going to be with me from the beginning to when we draw the contract to the end when we move in. That's the number one thing for me now.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:21):
Well, are you ever going to build again or was this-
[Laughter]
Trevor (32:27):
A year ago, I would've said absolutely not. I know what the problems are to kind of avoid the stress problems, I think.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:37):
Well, and all that hard won knowledge, you know.
Sheri Scott (32:40):
Yeah, yeah. I was actually expecting you to maybe reference back to when you chose your builder because a lot of the stress seems to come from the builder that you chose. And maybe in your location, maybe there wasn't a better option, but what do you think about that? Could there have been a better process to choose your builder?
Trevor (33:04):
I think so, yeah. I mean, these are kind of detailed things, but I would've done a better contract. I talked to an attorney after the fact and he was like, “Yeah, this is the standard contract that I would recommend for people doing a cost plus or any kind of construction project. It's very fair.” So, he told me that, and I was like, “Okay, yeah, I should have done that. So stupid.”
But I think even with that, it would've been a fight with the particular builder that we had, but I also don't think that he was like the worst builder or anything like that. So, I think the bones of the home are well done, there's no major issues with plumbing or electrical or anything like that.
Sheri Scott (33:46):
And it doesn't sound like he was dishonest. We've heard some terrible stories of dishonesty.
Trevor (33:52):
He wasn't dishonest, I wouldn't call him dishonest. I think he was a little bit — I wouldn't even say negligent, but just you shouldn't be coming in 30% over budget, that's way too much (chuckles). So, picking a builder is very, very important too.
I don't have any particular advice on how to do that well other than I think talking to the people that he's built homes for maybe would be the right approach as long as they're done.
Sheri Scott (34:18):
References.
Taylor Davis (36:19):
Yeah, references.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (34:23):
Well, we always like to end on a positive note, and you've kind of hinted at some of this already, but I'd love to hear what some of the things are, that unlike the caulk (laughs), that you see every time and you're like, “Yes, I love this. This is a great part of the house. I'm really happy about this part, this experience in the house.” The good stuff.
Trevor (34:45):
There's a lot of that actually. A lot of the stuff that brings us joy is like things that are materials flooring that our interior designer picked out or cabinet details that our cabinet maker did. We have a playroom in the house for the boys where they do all their schoolwork and have their toys and stuff. And our cabinet maker put some built-ins, similar to these like a across. And then I actually built the butcher block top for-
Marilyn Moedinger (35:16):
Oh, nice.
Trevor (35:17):
It was really long, so I had to join two pieces of wood together. So, it's like the only thing in the entire house that I had any hand in, but I made that-
Marilyn Moedinger (35:25):
Besides the management of the entire thing.
[Laughter]
Trevor (35:33):
So, that I'm proud of because I contributed to it. But other than that, our favorite rooms are the upstairs rooms because they're in the trees, and so the little studio we have above the garage is like an oasis. It's surrounded by oak trees, it's high up, it's very quiet. We have family and guests come and stay there a lot. So, that room brings us a lot of joy, and we're happy to have it.
A lot of people have been blessed to come and just stay and relax for a weekend in it. So, it's just a nice, cute little space. So, I like that room a lot. And then we have a guest room inside the house that has really, really big windows and faces the back of the house, and that is just tons of natural light. And we love that room too. So, ironically, it's the two rooms that we don't personally use (laughs) that we like.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (36:27):
Darn it.
Trevor (36:30):
I know (laughs), but if I can move my office in there somehow.
Marilyn Moedinger (36:35):
Well, that's great. Well, I really appreciate it, Trevor. I appreciate all this juicy info and your forthright analysis of all that you've been through, really help our listeners. So, really appreciate your generosity and sharing, and so glad you could join us today.
Trevor (36:52):
Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Sheri Scott (36:53):
Yeah, thank you.
Taylor Davis (36:54):
Thanks.
(Transition)
Marilyn Moedinger (36:57):
Wow, so many things, so many notes we can talk about (laughs).
Sheri Scott (37:03):
Yeah, that sounded like a tough one for him and his wife.
Marilyn Moedinger (37:08):
And I think the overarching of like they're happy and ended up more or less, you know, they're happy in the house and all that kind of stuff, but it didn't have to be like that, and I think when I hear stories like Trevor's, I'm just like, “This is why we're doing this podcast (laughs).”
Sheri Scott (37:25):
Yes, yes. And he didn't really identify it, but it sure seems to me like he just had the wrong builder. The wrong builder for his personality, for his style, for who he hired to design the house, his situation with the interior designer, how much help he expected — it sounded like expectations were not met or discussed.
So, I think it all goes back to the very beginning and choosing a team, and thank goodness he found that interior designer that gave him some relief.
Marilyn Moedinger (37:57):
I think that's a great point, Sheri, about it isn't just that a builder is a bad builder or a good builder, but are they a good fit for you and your project? And that even projects that I have, like I have builders I often work with over and over or my clients often work with over and over, but they aren't the best fit for every client.
You know, there's whether it's personality or skill or whatever, and there's nothing wrong with that, that is completely fine (laughs). But I think that's an under … like most people are just looking at cost and they're not necessarily looking at the personality or the processes of the builder and they should.
Just looking here at my notes of what he said that I wanted to underline 12 times, there's so many things. One of them we've talked about before, is the builder will do what is easiest for them. The subcontractors will do what is easiest for them unless they're asked to do something else.
And again, that's not necessarily malicious. If they aren't given a transition detail to go between tile and wood floor, they're not going to choose something custom or they're not going to do a strip of Schluter, they're going to do the sort of the saddle threshold that is just the norm, and not do that next level. So, I think again, that's why our drawing sets are so … that we have so many details in them because we're asking them to do things that aren't just the off-the-shelf thing.
Taylor Davis (39:19):
If it's important to you, it's important to make sure that it happens. If you're okay with things going defaulting to the norm, there may be some cost savings associated with that. But for sure, you want to articulate if those particular details on the main level or around the windows or whatever that is, are important, that needs to get communicated, period, end of story.
Sheri Scott (39:43):
But he doesn't even know to communicate that. So, it goes back again to who's drawing the drawings and developing the details. And if you don't develop the details, if you hire a home designer who draws the house, designs the house, does a nice job designing and then ships it off and never sees it again, then you need to pick an interior designer that's going to follow up and stay the whole project, or pick a builder that you know does those details.
But goes back to so many conversations we've had; you don't know what you don't know until you know, until you see it. When he walked in and he saw that transition, he's like, “Oh, I didn't say what I wanted, but now I know I don't want that.” And who knew that you had to say, “Do a good job on the caulk outside.”
Marilyn Moedinger (40:32):
Well, and my clients, when we talk a lot about decision fatigue and just how many decisions are needed in a project, and sometimes my clients, like in the middle of a big design session, we're working through a bunch of things and they'll kind of stop and they'll look at me and they'll go, “I had no idea. I didn't even know about this, and now you're asking me to make a decision about how the tile and the whatever.”
And it's said in this kind of funny way, they're like, “I had no idea this was even a decision I had to make. I thought I was just picking out the faucets and the tile and we're done.” And that is not the case. And so, as an architect part of what … and we do full interiors and you guys do too, I know that too, and part of what we're doing is helping people thread the needle on the things.
There's plenty of decisions that my clients might not be interested in getting in the weeds on, and my job is getting to know them and understanding that they're just like they don't want to know all that. If I show them a picture of one of our previous projects and I'm like, “Is this the vibe?” And they're like, “Yes.”
Then I say, “Okay, great. These are the tile transitions, these are the whatever,” I already can tell. But it is important to somebody has to draw it or the builder is going to do whatever he wants. I think that goes to another point that he made that I underlined in the episode, but want to underline again, getting things in writing.
Sheri Scott (41:53):
Yes, right. During the build process.
Marilyn Moedinger (41:55):
During the build process.
Sheri Scott (41:57):
And during the interview to ask the builder how they handle documentation. And if they have no way to do it, that's a red flag.
Marilyn Moedinger (42:07):
That's a red flag. You know one of the things I learned back when I was contracting when I was a PM at a contractor, which I was before I was an architect. So, that's a lot of the processes that I do are based in the fact that I came from that world.
And one of the things that we used to do is when there were changes to — so he was mentioning the budget and how they went over budget, but some of those decisions were because of things they wanted.
So, we would, in a change order log, or basically a change order log, there's a column in the log that says, initiated by, so that then later we could say, yes, we were 15% over budget, but 9 out of 10 of the change orders were because you changed your mind and wanted to upgrade something.
There was only 10% of them were things that were based in a mistake that we made or the something we needed to fix. So, it's actually important to track that and to understand that's a comment for builders, for owners and whatever.
A lot of things can get lost in your impression of how things are going instead of the actual data of what's actually going on. And that can cost you a lot of money if you're not tracking things carefully.
Sheri Scott (43:22):
I don't know many builders that track that decision, but it's a great idea, it is. And of course, the thing I'm sure we all underlined was him saying, find an advocate. Have an advocate, hire an architect, pay them to work through construction with you. It just works as a triangle to have builder, architect, owner — just works.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:51):
Well, and how about all of that time that he had to spend on this project and got to the point where he is like, “I can't do this anymore.” His wife tagged in. I mean, they have kids, they have jobs, they have lives, they're living not in their house, their stuff is everywhere, that has a real cost.
And to say, “Well, I saved money …” and he didn't say this, but we hear it a lot, “Well, I don't want to pay an architect because I can do all that.” A, you're not trained, you don't have decades of experience, so no, you can't actually do it to the same level. Just like I can't do their job to their level. Like I don't know how to do their job.
But the other part of that is that that time has a real value, and I'm sure it affected his work and his family time and all that kind of stuff. And boy, oh boy, if you're thinking like would I pay an architect to take this all off my plate and save me money by making sure that we weren't making these mistakes? I mean, our fee is basically paid for, so-
Thank you so much for joining us on Home: The Second Story. If you'd like to come on our show and share your story, we'd love to have you. Please email us at admin@htsspodcast.com. We'd love to have you on as a guest. For more inspiring homeowner stories and tips, we will see you next time.
Voiceover (45:14):
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