We talk with Cami Pinsak about a kitchen remodel in her 1950 ranch home in Camarillo, California, and the conversation turns into a very clear lesson about what happens when a homeowner tries to manage too much of a renovation alone. What began as a simple kitchen update, driven in part by the need for a new refrigerator, quickly expanded into a larger project with more decisions, more coordination, and more stress than expected. Cami explains that she and her husband had lived with a dated 1990s remodel for years, and once they finally committed to changing it, they moved ahead with drawings and engineering but without hiring a designer to guide the process through construction.
As we hear from Cami, the biggest challenge is not her taste level or ability to choose finishes. She knows the look she wants. The real problem is managing the constant flow of decisions, trade coordination, schedule disruptions, and communication gaps with the general contractor and subcontractors. She describes how she has had to act like the project manager herself, chasing updates, figuring out what needs to happen next, and learning far more than she ever wanted to know about sinks, quartzite, cabinet stains, and lead times. She makes the point that a designer would not just have helped with aesthetics. A designer would have curated options, set expectations, created a realistic sequence, reviewed drawings and details, and shielded her from a lot of avoidable frustration.
The conversation also highlights how custom work breaks the illusion of instant gratification. Materials are not always available quickly, and small choices can create major delays when they affect cabinetry, countertops, paint, or installation order. Cami shares several examples, including the difficulty of finding a 43 inch double bowl sink and the cascading impact that one unresolved choice can have on everything else. We also talk about how contractors and subs often recommend what is easiest for them to build, not always what is best for the finished design, and why having an architect or designer in the middle helps protect the homeowner from compromises they may not recognize until it is too late.
Even in the middle of the mess, Cami can see the payoff. The kitchen has been opened to the living spaces and views beyond, the cabinetry is finally coming together, and she can picture the finished room improving daily life in a real way. Her advice is direct: interview several designers, compare levels of service, and hire support that fits your budget. Otherwise, you may end up paying in stress, time, and mistakes what you thought you were saving in fees.
(00:00) Intro
(01:39) How a kitchen update became a bigger remodel
(05:52) Why not hiring a designer became the biggest mistake
(08:49) What could have convinced Cami to hire one
(10:58) Cabinet stain delays and timeline problems
(13:50) Instant gratification vs real material lead times
(16:16) What Cami expected from the contractor
(18:33) Contracts, lien waivers, and missed protections
(22:12) When contractors recommend what is easiest
(24:24) Language barriers and daily site communication
(27:11) The emotional toll of living through construction
(29:27) Why good builders want a designer involved
(31:52) Where the project stands now
(34:27) Budget, allowances, and hidden costs
(38:13) Cami’s advice to homeowners
(39:19) Post interview reflections from Marilyn and Sheri
(45:35) Why instant decisions do not work in custom projects
(50:15) Comparing designer service levels
(51:32) Outro and how to be a guest
Speakers: Sheri Scott, Marilyn Moedinger & Cami Pinsak
Marilyn Moedinger (00:00):
Hi, and welcome to Home: The Second Story. We're two residential architects sharing real conversations with homeowners who've taken on custom home or renovation projects. I'm Marilyn Moedinger from Runcible Studios located in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and Boston, Massachusetts.
Sheri Scott (00:15):
And I'm Sheri Scott of Springhouse Architects in Cincinnati, Ohio. And today, we are joined by Cami from California in Ventura County.
Welcome, Cami.
Cami Pinsak (00:26):
Thanks so much for having us, ladies. Well, us, like me, myself, and I.
Marilyn Moedinger (00:30):
The royal we.
Sheri Scott (00:31):
All of you.
[Laughter]
That's great. So, Cami, to start out, we just have some quick questions to lay groundwork, and then we'll get into more of the meat of the story. So, where is the project located?
Cami Pinsak (00:47):
The project is located in my kitchen.
[Laughter]
It is actually in the house I live in that I reside in. It's a 1950 home, ranch-style home in the old town portion of Camarillo. It's a little secret. I call it the “mullet house” because it looks like a typical ranch-style house in the front, but then in the back, it is views to the Pacific Ocean. You can see the Anacapa Islands and the Santa Monica Mountains, and it's just amazing. So, it's business in the front, party in the back.
Sheri Scott (01:32):
Sounds awesome. So, what was the project? You said your kitchen, was that the full scope of the project?
Cami Pinsak (01:39):
That is what it started, as of course. We have lived in our house for about 10 years, and it was a glorious 1990s Home Depot renovation. We are only the third owner of this home. And the previous owner did a lot of DIY and pretty much just on a lower budget. Worked well for them, wasn't my vibe at all.
And after 10 years, I asked my husband, I said, “Really, we've got to get this done. This is happening.” And he said, “But why are we doing a kitchen remodel? We're going to die in 15 years.”
[Laughter]
And I said, “Well, because my second husband will really enjoy it.”
Sheri Scott (02:30):
There you go.
Cami Pinsak (02:33):
That's how we embarked on this project.
Sheri Scott (02:36):
When did you start your project and is it complete?
Cami Pinsak (02:39):
We started the preliminary process probably in August of 2025. We did our due diligence. We had worked with a draftsman before; there were a lot of things in our home we wanted to remodel.
So, we wanted to get all of the plans done at once so that any of the structural necessities would be addressed head on and we wouldn't be limited in the future based on the mistakes that we made in the past.
So, we worked with a draftsman who was a friend and local draftsman. After that (this is a cautionary tale), I did not get a designer. I thought the primary impetus for the kitchen besides my being tired of the 90s decor was we needed a new refrigerator.
Marilyn Moedinger (03:44):
(Laughs) It's always something like that.
Sheri Scott (03:46):
There's always a story like that, and then it got bigger.
Cami Pinsak (03:50):
And then my dream refrigerator was a 48-inch Sub-Zero commercial-style refrigerator with the glass doors. I'm sure you're very familiar. And so, it necessitated us expanding the scope of those cabinets where the refrigerator was. When we got into that, then it became, “Oh, I wonder if we just need to add some cabinets over here, extend it.”
And yeah, so when we looked at a builder, I had a client whose father-in-law was a builder. And the changes that he had made to their home when they bought it were really, really nice. It came out great; I loved the look of it.
So, I'm like, “You're it. You're going to be the guy.” Great conversation. Came in approximately what I thought, and we started the actual demolition on December 20th of 2025.
Sheri Scott (04:57):
Oh, that's interesting. You don't usually start right before Christmas.
Cami Pinsak (05:03):
I know. Doesn't that sound like an odd time to do that? No, we actually have a cabin up near Mammoth Mountain in California. And so, it's kind of a local ski mountain area. And that's where generally my husband and I will spend time with our adult children for the holidays. So, that was a natural two-week diversion where we would not be here for the demolition.
Marilyn Moedinger (05:28):
You're still underway, right? That’s what we’re going to talk about.
Cami Pinsak (05:33):
99 days.
Sheri Scott (05:39):
So, you mentioned that you worked with a draftsman and not a designer. And so, did anything change through the project? Did you bring anyone else in? Are you struggling through on your own?
Cami Pinsak (05:52):
Oh, Sheri, that was my mistake. I really thought we're just kind of keeping most of the same footprint in the kitchen. And I thought, “I got this. I've done a kitchen remodel in the past. This really isn't that big.” But it really is.
I would have been so well served by a designer and that collaboration ongoing to this day. My business is real estate. I'm a realtor and I liken it to look, could you sell your house on your own without a realtor? Absolutely, you could. Is it going to be fun? Not at all.
Because the realtor is going to shepherd you down a path and kind of shield you from all of the noise and the decisions on the outside, show you what the red flags are, things that you're going to regret down the road, et cetera, et cetera. And I think that is really what a designer could have done for me in this case. Compound that with that I have ADD.
Marilyn Moedinger (07:02):
(Laughs) So, you need someone to help you through all that.
Cami Pinsak (07:06):
I am now a subject matter expert in quartzite, in sinks. I can tell you exactly what sinks come in; a 43-inch size that are double sinks. Not many, by the way. I mean, all of this.
Marilyn Moedinger (07:21):
That's useful, I'm sure, because you can use that in your work, but not ideal because it's taking you away from your work (laughs).
Cami Pinsak (07:32):
And it's just a frustration. The other thing that I think I could really have relied on a designer for was to kind of be the buffer between me and the GC. And I'm finding that I'm having to GC the GC. And in many cases, just get the subs information myself, because the collaboration and coordination is not there.
Marilyn Moedinger (08:02):
Yeah, that's really hard.
Cami Pinsak (08:03):
Nice, nice guy. And the subs are very quality. Quality craftsmen, I would say. But knowing what is happening at any specific time is near impossible. Every Monday, I feel like I'm pulling teeth saying, “What's going to happen this week? What's going on?”
Sheri Scott (08:24):
You're living in the house while it's going on? So, are you there every morning with them?
Cami Pinsak (08:29):
Yes. Super. Yeah.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (08:34):
So, we like to dive into our big question right away, which you've already anticipated, obviously, which is knowing what you know now, what would you do differently? So, it sounds like designer might be one of the things at the top of that list.
Cami Pinsak (08:49):
Absolutely. I think it would be the top thing.
Marilyn Moedinger (08:52):
The top thing. So, before we talk about what other things that might be on that list for you, I'm curious, what would have convinced you of that? So, we give that advice all the time. Like we tell people all the time, you will want a designer. You will need an architect, but people don't listen.
Going back in time, do you think there is anything that anyone could have said that you would have been like, “Well, yeah, you're right. I should get a designer.”
Cami Pinsak (09:19):
Sigh. Actually, if somebody had kind of positioned it in the way that I mentioned like we're kind of acting as a realtor in a way to guide the process and really buffer you from all of the noise, I think that would have been very helpful for me.
Marilyn Moedinger (09:43):
That's interesting because what you're describing is someone putting it in a context that makes sense to you. I mean, being a designer and doing that work is very different than your day-to-day work.
So, in terms of I wouldn't understand all the aspects of your day-to-day work, for example. So having someone explain something in a context that makes more sense would have been helpful, it sounds like.
Cami Pinsak (10:10):
And I think that I did suffer a little bit from: I'm in houses all the time, I know what the styles are. I know the aesthetic I want; I got this type of thing.
Sheri Scott (10:25):
And you probably did aesthetically. I'm sure it's going to end up being absolutely beautiful. But it's more of the service side, more of the management and the knowledge and all of that.
But certainly, as a person that sounds like you know what you like, you know what you wanted, you know what's going to hold its value, so making the selections wasn't the problem, it's actually the management of the project and your time and energy.
Cami Pinsak (10:58):
A little bit. It was difficult to get the stain for the cabinets correct. And I was told by the general contractor, “He will go out into the front yard and he'll mix the stain on site until you're happy with it.” And I was like, “That is amazing. That is going to be fabulous. We're going to knock this out in one day.”
Well, that wasn't exactly how it transpired because the stainer was quite sought after and worked in various parts of California. He came when he had time, took the sample, went home, made some more samples.
Then it was another week and a half until he could get them there, which really limited my ability to figure out paint color, which really limited my ability to pick countertops, things of that nature. And flooring.
Marilyn Moedinger (11:53):
I mean, that's something that I know Sheri and I do every day, is help people navigate, okay, if we want to work with this stainer, then these are the parameters. It's going to take a week and a half between each one or a week between each one or a few days at least or whatever, so we need to build that in.
So, we need to start two months earlier than it seems reasonable to because we need to build in that time. And honestly, like what I hear you saying, too, is that it isn't a problem necessarily that it takes the stainer that long. It's that you didn't know and that you can't plan for it.
Sheri Scott (12:30):
Yeah. The expectation of it.
Cami Pinsak (12:32):
And in my career, I work a lot on timelines, that one thing has to happen before another thing has to happen. And in this instance, the conversations with the GC were like, “Hey, what is happening this week?” And he is like, “Well, did you pick out your flooring?” And then I would have to say, “Sir, I don't have cabinet colors yet. I'm not sure how I can do that.”
There was not the they're just looking at the end result, and so I think a designer could have maybe curated some choices based on my aesthetic desire and kind of brought those to me.
Marilyn Moedinger (13:20):
Absolutely. Yep. That's absolutely what they would do.
Cami Pinsak (13:23):
As opposed to me having to go curate that.
Marilyn Moedinger (13:28):
I mean, are there other things? Do you feel like you've missed some opportunities? I mean, you're in the middle of things so you haven't lived with the end result, it's not completely done yet. And by the way, we haven't interviewed someone who's in the middle of their project, so you're our first.
Cami Pinsak (13:42):
I want it to be a cautionary tale, folks.
Marilyn Moedinger (13:44):
Yeah, yeah. So, what other cautions do you have for everyone listening?
Cami Pinsak (13:50):
I think that the other thing that a designer could really help with is we live in a world of instant gratification. And Amazon brings something to our house in 24 to 48 hours, Wayfair brings something to our house in 24 to 48 hours.
But a lot of those other materials that need to be sourced sometimes are sitting on a boat in the middle of the ocean, and you can't get them for 8 to 12 weeks. I think that is also where I could have had some help, some assistance.
And then, alright, well, this is what you really want, my 43-inch double basin sink. And they could say in the beginning, “Hey, I know you really like that, but that is going to be a tough find in the time frame that you want. Here are some other options that I think might make you happy.”
Marilyn Moedinger (14:48):
And then you're able to then weigh it and say … I mean, I was literally just in a meeting with a client where we were talking about this exact thing where you say, okay, well, in a perfect world, we would have this, this and this. But in the world that it exists as it is, we need to prioritize.
And suddenly, the sink becomes less important if it means the whole project is going to be delayed by six weeks or six months because you can't get that sink or whatever. And then you're suddenly like, “Well, that sink isn't so important.”
Or you're like, “No, that sink is so important that I'm going to delay this whole project. And we're not even going to start for six months until we have that sink in our hands because it's that important.” And either way is fine but being in the middle of that is really, really hard (laughs).
Cami Pinsak (15:30):
But just giving the options. And for me, I am like I don't believe that that is the only sink that comes in this size. I have to go down the rabbit hole and find it. Somewhere there is a sink that matches my preferences that has not been discovered yet (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (15:48):
And it might be true.
Cami Pinsak (15:50):
I doubt it at this point.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (15:52):
Well, not now. You've combed the internet.
Cami Pinsak (15:57):
And now, we're back at the beginning because I ordered this giant sink, but I thought it was a matte black sink, and it's a matte shiny sink, which is not what I want at all.
Marilyn Moedinger (16:08):
Oh, here we go.
Cami Pinsak (16:09):
Yes, exactly. This is all what a designer's expertise could have given me.
Sheri Scott (16:16):
The work you're doing with the contractor, do you feel like you didn't understand what his full role would be, or do you think your expectations weren't appropriate for expecting him to fill in all of these gaps, or did you simply not know what it was going to take?
Cami Pinsak (16:39):
So, the last time that I did a kitchen remodel was probably about 15 years ago. And I did kind of use a kitchen designer. They ordered the cabinets, the whole nine yards. And then truly, a good friend of ours did the GC-ing, and he was an exceptional general contractor.
So, he kind of eased us through that and did some of the ... they worked together to give us some of the options, and the, “Hey, that's not going to work. I want to let you know what's going to happen if you do X, Y, and Z.” And I thought that all general contractors were of that quality. That turns out not to be the case.
And communication, my daughter does permit facilitating in LA. And so, when I would kind of buffer things off of her like, “Hey, is this normal?” And she said, “Yeah, they're not really great communicators (laughs). You really have to be on top of them.”
And so, that's not what I was expecting. I was expecting the version I'd had before. So, part of it, again, mea culpa, my fault. I didn't do the research. I didn't interview three resources. I just jumped right in because I knew this person.
Sheri Scott (18:09):
Not that he's dishonest or anything else; there haven't been those kind of confrontations that you might have found in an internet research or something on him. But maybe better placed questions in the beginning of what does this process really look like, and what will I have to do and what will you do, and kind of laying out that groundwork.
Cami Pinsak (18:33):
That, and then like a big one that I just heard, maybe I saw it on X, but lien waivers.
Marilyn Moedinger (18:44):
Oh, yeah, that was a whole thing about liens.
Cami Pinsak (18:47):
I almost just had a heart attack. I'm like, “I'm pretty sure I don't have any of those. I don't have that.” So, new fear unlocked.
Sheri Scott (18:57):
Yeah, it's not too late to do that. That's easy to catch up on.
Marilyn Moedinger (18:57):
Yep, easy to catch up on.
Cami Pinsak (19:03):
So, some of these things, and then another friend of mine who had her kitchen done, she was brilliant. She put in the contract that says, “Hey, if you finish X amount of weeks early, I'll add a bonus. If you finish X amount of weeks late, then I'll get a discount.” Brilliant. Why didn't I think of that? Maybe a designer could have.
Sheri Scott (19:28):
Yeah, a lot of times contractors, of course, they'll take the bonus clause, but they'll, of course, push back on the cost.
Marilyn Moedinger (19:40):
The liquidated damages part.
Sheri Scott (19:41):
Yeah, the damages for so many reasons and it's so hard to enforce. But just to have something in there to have that conversation and if he pushes back, then say, what do I get if it's late? How late is reasonable? And have that conversation before the project starts.
Cami Pinsak (20:00):
Little things like the cabinetmaker, great craftsman. Again, tech, not his friend. So, his CAD drawing ability was left a little bit to be desired. And when we got to moldings, he was just going to do a very traditional molding.
I said, “Well, that's not what I wanted.” And he said, “Well, I just assumed because that's what was in the drawing.” And things like that where I had to really push back on it but it would have been so much easier if it had been part of the original process.
Marilyn Moedinger (20:42):
What you're highlighting here- and I'm just obviously very excited to be getting this super in the middle of things experience that you're sharing is that what a designer or an architect does is so much more than just draw a pretty picture, or tell you what tile to choose or whatever.
You've named so many things that we do. So, whether it's being that buffer between you and the contractor, whether it's helping, because that contractor is difficult to communicate with to you, they're also difficult for us.
But we've got a lot of experience dealing with it or we have a prior relationship or there's other ways that we're able to kind of get through that that's much more difficult for a homeowner.
So, whether it's that or whether it's the shop drawings, that's what you're just describing right now, where we would be reviewing those. And we would say, no, this isn't the right trim before it gets to the point where he's making it or installing it.
And I think that's if there's one thing I could just underline, I mean, we're in the middle of our conversation, but I'm like, pause, underline, and say that we do so much more than just make a pretty picture or talk about where rooms go or whatever.
And you're highlighting all those things right now. It's the service, it's the communication, it's the timelines, it's also the knowledge to know when something is BS and when we can call it out.
Cami Pinsak (22:12):
That's a great point, Marilyn, because a lot of the times when I'm being told something, I think the first time the fabricator walked through, there's the whole, I guess quartz is not always all the way through. Sometimes it's printed on top, you have to have it mitered. I didn't want that look.
But here in Southern California, we do 2CM as opposed to 3CM, which they do in other parts of the country. And so, mitering is really part of it. It's just how that miter occurs. And he was saying, “Well, we just normally do this.” And I had a hard time looking at him, having met him for the first time and saying, “Is that really how you do things here or are you just lazy?”
And I don't mean that in a bad way, but what is the easiest for you? Like I keep getting, “Well, we'll do quarter round down here.” And I hate quarter round so much. I don't want it anywhere in my kitchen at all. It would be like flooring with transitions. That's easy for them, but it's not the look I want.
Marilyn Moedinger (23:26):
So, I tweeted this the other day, I don't know if you saw it on there, Cami. But just a reminder that what generally subs and GCs are going to recommend is the thing that's easiest for them.
Not because they are bad or because they're trying to sneak one by. They're just thinking like, here, I've done this before, I know how to execute this. This is what I'm going to recommend.
And if you push back, the good ones will say, “Well, yeah, I can do it this other way or I haven't done that before, but let me get someone in here who does or whatever.” That's what the good ones say.
It's the bad ones who say, “No, you can't do that. There's no possible way ever.” And you're like, yeah, but we're just talking about shoe mold here, we're not talking about something structural or something related to code. We're talking about something that, yeah, there's a way to do this, you just don't want to. And we have those conversations all the time (laughs).
Cami Pinsak (24:24):
I mean, there are also a significant amount of language barriers out here as well. I have some lovely gentlemen, very hardworking. They are doing an excellent job. But besides “hi” and “thank you,” I cannot have a conversation with them at all.
And so, that is frustrating. It would be so great if I had a designer who would be able to set that expectation every single day with their foreman.
Marilyn Moedinger (25:02):
I don't have any other languages other than English. But what does help is having really good drawings because everyone can read pictures. And I think in a world like in Boston, there's usually multiple languages being spoken on a job site, but we can all look at the drawings and we can say, “This is what we're doing here.”
And when they're really detailed and when they're organized, that's very helpful. But the language barrier thing is real, and that can be a real challenge. Communication is hard enough as it is and then you're not speaking the same language, that can be really tough.
Cami Pinsak (25:34):
Yeah, and when they're the only people in your house, I'm like, I don't know, I got to talk to your boss, I guess, before we can move forward.
Marilyn Moedinger (25:44):
And there's plenty of situations where when you go to hire the builder or the sub, you're talking to the guy who is the foreman or the owner, you're not talking to the guys who are actually going to do the work. So, it's actually one of the important questions to ask when you're hiring a builder.
“Who is going to be on my job site every day that I can communicate with or that my architect or designer can? Who is that person?” And if it's not you, I need to meet that guy before I hire you because that's the person you're going to interface with the most.
Cami Pinsak (26:15):
And see, you ladies would have thought of those questions.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (26:18):
It's true.
Sheri Scott (26:19):
And to know that chain of command. Because really, it's tough on a job site when you have flipped the script where we have a difficult owner and the owner is communicating directly with the subs, that's a recipe for disaster also because it really should all go through the general contractor.
So, having that third party on site to kind of help that communication go in the right direction is important too.
Cami Pinsak (26:53):
And I'm a little embarrassed, but I mean, it just is a reality. I fear I may not have shown up as the best version of myself with some of the subs because you're at a heightened level of stress.
Sheri Scott (27:09):
It is very emotional.
Cami Pinsak (27:11):
And then I have taken time to go pick out counters 45 minutes away in the area where all the counters are. And the stainer has taken the only sample with him because, of course, he needed a sample to be able to do it, but I did not know (laughs).
So, I kind of had a little meltdown to the point where I had to profusely apologize multiple times throughout the day (laughs).
Marilyn Moedinger (27:41):
Well, that happens all the time, honestly, because construction is an emotional thing. It's emotional for everyone. It's emotional for the homeowners. I've seen all sorts of things happen on a job site and not an owner was anywhere near them.
There's guys getting all worked up about things or somebody getting mad at somebody else, lots of passions and lots of things going on, because it's hard to do physical work. It's hard to do these things. The subs are on a job site with other guys that may not know.
Other subs are getting in their way; the painter's irritated at the carpenter who's cutting something and it's getting sawdust in the air. Like all of that is already happening. So, you're stepping into that, into an already heightened place.
You know, it isn't the smooth sailing, beautiful thing, and then you as homeowner walk in and like stir them all up. I mean, it's much more nuanced than that. It's already a heightened place. And then you're coming in and you're like, “I don't know who to talk to, I don't know what's going on.”
Cami Pinsak (28:45):
Also, I'm trying to live in my house and now you have cut all of the water to the front of my house. Not even the temporary setup is working, now you have also cut the electricity so we can't enjoy the outside TV or anything.
This last weekend, my husband lost his mind, and so then I'm the buffer between that and the electrician (laughs). So, yes, these are all things that I would highly recommend that it would be so nice just to make one phone call to the designer, and just say-
Marilyn Moedinger (29:19):
And then we take it from there.
Cami Pinsak (29:21):
Could you please make sure that this happens or could you please request this.
Marilyn Moedinger (29:27):
And frankly, it's not a good sign when a contractor is okay working without a designer. And that's my hot take. I used to be a contractor. I know it from that side. And when I was being trained, that was always the first thing. Where are the drawings and who is in charge of these drawings? Designer, architect, whatever.
A good general contractor wants that person because that person is handling the owner and handling all the staff while the builder can build. If I don't have that person, if I'm the builder and I don't have that person who's running interference like that, then I'm pulled off my job all the time, and I can't manage my guys because I'm focused on the owner. That's a real job.
And so, I just want to say, it is a good sign when a builder says, “I'm not going to call your job until you have drawings” or I don't work on jobs if there's not a designer here. That's actually a really good sign, that shows a level of professionalism.
Cami Pinsak (30:30):
And I think he was okay with the drawings that we had. Like we did the drawing, we did the engineering all kind of before we even started, but it was … yeah I mean, God love him. Nice guy, it's going to be great.I'm never going to mention any names, but I think he's been to my job site twice.
Sheri Scott (30:53):
I mean, it depends on what the contract is you had with him, and what responsibility he has during construction.
Cami Pinsak (31:01):
And Sheri, that's another thing.I would never have known to say, “Hey, in our contract, I need monthly site meetings with you, not the foreman.”
Sheri Scott (31:11):
So, that's interesting.
Marilyn Moedinger (31:12):
We do weekly (laughs).
Cami Pinsak (31:14):
I'd be happy with monthly at this point.
Sheri Scott (31:18):
And so, that's a difference between maybe getting a draftsman to “do your drawings” and they do a good job and the design is good. But it's a big difference between getting the drawings and the design done, and hiring a full-service architect.And this is exactly the difference we're talking about.
So, Cami, what's your path forward? You're in the middle. Are you in the middle?Do you think you're 50% through? Where are you, and what's your path forward?
Cami Pinsak (31:52):
If we were talking about a pregnancy, I am in month eight, on bedrest, and can't get comfortable.
[Laughter]
Sheri Scott (32:01):
That paints a picture.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:02):
That certainly does.
Cami Pinsak (32:05):
It's so close, but I am definitely a stranger in my house right now.And it's all kind of coming to … I would say it's going to be another month if we're lucky. Another month if we're lucky. And part of it's my fault. I don't have fixtures chosen yet because I still don't have a sink.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:33):
Well, your fault, relatively speaking, though. I mean, if you're not told when to do it or you're not … I mean, that's hard. That's really hard.
Cami Pinsak (32:43):
Or if I just didn't marry myself to a 43-inch double bowl sink.
Marilyn Moedinger (32:48):
Well, yes, there's that, too.So, you've got a month to go, we're hoping. You're going to move in, all this is going to be a distant memory, hopefully. You're going to listen to this podcast in six months, maybe, and you're going to be like, “Oh, I remember that. That was awful.”
But part of the reason why when you and I first talked that you said that you wanted to do this, because I said we've never interviewed someone who's in the middle of a project. And you mentioned that it was important to have this conversation because it's very fresh for you.
And maybe in six months, you're going to be kind of like, “Ah, you know, we made it to the end, it's fine.” So, I think that's important.
Cami Pinsak (33:27):
I do, too. And if you bring it back to the pregnancy analogy and sorry for any homeowners out there who are not having babies or experienced that. Once you've had a baby, you forget that horrible part.And after, you would do it all over again. But you forget all of kind of the crummy part in between.
And so, I do think it's important for people to understand exactly why a designer is important because I'm probably going to spend that much over just because of time frame necessity or poor design choices anyway.
Marilyn Moedinger (34:18):
That's an important point right there.
Cami Pinsak (34:21):
Yeah. It's probably all going to be more, and it's my own darn fault.
Sheri Scott (34:27):
You haven't disclosed much about the budget and we don't have to talk about numbers. But are you close to your original budget or is that another thing that went sideways?
Cami Pinsak (34:39):
I think that I have not been asked for more or any add-ons yet. I have been asked for progress payments and they've been based on work completed so far. So, I think that's been fair. Flooring was additional, the countertops were additional. I did not get an allowance for the countertops.
Sheri Scott (35:08):
Was that a surprise or did you know that in the contract?
Cami Pinsak (35:11):
Actually, I don't think it was because I couldn't tell them what I wanted at that point because I didn't have a designer to say, “Hey, these are your best options, etc.”
Sheri Scott(35:19):
Or this is a good placeholder.
Marilyn Moedinger (35:22):
Also, the contractor knows you need countertops of some kind, like put something in there to hold the place, you know.
Cami Pinsak (35:30):
Yeah. And that didn't happen. And again, just somebody to … I guess I could have run it through ChatGPT and asked for feedback on my bid.But this is also where a designer could have said, “Hey, maybe …” what is the additional that they put on top of everything? The P and E or whatever.
Marilyn Moedinger (35:57):
Oh, overhead and profit, OHP.
Cami Pinsak (35:59):
Oh, yes, yes, that. This seems a bit high or because I just didn't know.And especially now that I seem to be doing a lot of the GC-ing for the GC.
Sheri Scott (36:13):
Yeah, you’re earning that profit for him.
Marilyn Moedinger (36:14):
Yeah, exactly, he should be paying you.
Cami Pinsak(36:13):
I'm wondering if we're going to get a discount.
Marilyn Moedinger (36:18):
So, I know you're still underway, obviously, we keep saying that. But I'm wondering if you still can share with us something that either is already completed or that you're anticipating that you're going to love. This is our last question.We want to end on a high note. Like what is something that you just love?
Cami Pinsak (36:39):
So, one of the things that has transpired was we did take down a wall and opened up the kitchen breakfast area into the dining living room because we have that party in the back view, we have a ton of natural light. There are no window coverings in the kitchen, and the kitchen and the cabinetry, they just got stained and painted the last couple of days.
Oh, my God, I'm so in love with it. And I think that the countertop that we've chosen, which is, it's a quartzite.I can't remember the name, something with gold, and it is going to be absolutely gorgeous in there. So, I am very excited about that and storage that I've never had.
So, I can see the finish line. I can see the upgrade in our life that it's going to make. And just really anticipating just being able to make a cup of coffee, have a little entertainment center, and all of the outlets that I need, all of the cabinet storage that I need, I'm just obsessed.
Marilyn Moedinger (37:55):
That's a great spot to send us out on a high note. Cami, we can't thank you enough for being willing to share your story in the middle of things and to share all of this for other folks who might be able to be saved from making some mistakes.
Cami Pinsak (38:13):
My advice to anybody would be just interview three designers, maybe different levels of service that they're going to be able to give you, and work with somebody that's going to fit your budget because otherwise, it is going to be a very stressful three to six months.
Marilyn Moedinger (38:36):
Yes, yes, absolutely. Well, thank you so much.
Cami Pinsak (38:40):
And thank you. I love listening to the podcast because I've learned a lot just even going through this process. And one of the things I just heard on your recently released snack size was do more than you originally planned if it makes sense.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:01):
Yeah, put more in the shopping cart. It's easier to check out with more in the cart.
Cami Pinsak (39:06):
And that's what we did a couple of things.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:09):
Good.
Cami Pinsak(39:10):
Great advice, ladies.
[Laughter]
Marilyn Moedinger (39:13):
Well, thank you so much, Cami. Really appreciate it.
Cami Pinsak (39:15):
Thank you for the opportunity. Hope you all have an amazing day.
(Transition)
Marilyn Moedinger (39:19):
Well, that was awesome.
Sheri Scott (39:21):
That was awesome.
[Laughter]
Made me feel so good about the work I do.
Marilyn Moedinger (39:26):
And also, for the audience, I feel like we should just say we didn't tell her to say those things.
Sheri Scott(39:33):
Not any of it.
Marilyn Moedinger(39:34):
Even though it sounds very much like what we always say (laughs).
Sheri Scott (39:36):
Exactly what we preach.
Marilyn Moedinger(39:39):
Because turns out what we preach is based in real things.
Sheri Scott (39:42):
In reality.
So, I think that I found my new tagline for my business-
Marilyn Moedinger (39:47):
Oh, yeah?
Sheri Scott (39:48):
Shepard and Shield (I'm just kidding about the tagline).But I just loved her describing how she felt a designer could have helped her to shepherd her through the project and to shield her from all of these things that she is having to figure out and do and make mistakes and correct them, and figure out the timeline. She just has an entire job.
And we've said this so many times that if you don't want to do it yourself on your project, if you don't know the things, if you don't have the time, then you need to pay somebody to do that job because the job exists.It is there. Those things need to be done.
Marilyn Moedinger (40:30):
Those things need to be done.And what did she say towards the end? She said it's going to cost her the same amount as if she would hire a designer. So, every time – we hear this time and time and time again, people don't hire a designer, an architect, they try to muddle through on their own. It takes longer; it costs more.They spend more than if they would have just hired the person to do it in the first place and they get a worse product.
I don't understand, world. I don’t understand.
Sheri Scott (40:57):
And all of the stress. It costs the exact same or you'll save money and all of the stress.
Marilyn Moedinger (41:04):
And it's better. The project is better because you're not making all these weird compromises. And I think that's one thing that … that's why I said that about general contractors is that good ones know that and they want an architect or designer on board.They really do.
Because that person who's shepherding and shielding means that the contractor doesn't have to do that.The contractor needs to build and build, build and manage. So, they're building, they’re managing, the architect is shepherding and shielding. And those are real roles.
Sheri Scott (41:40):
They are real roles. That contractor doesn't need to be figuring out the stain guy taking a week and a half and where the sample is and why they would get three samples, not just one. Like come on (laughs). Oh, so many small things that add up to be real, real complications.
Marilyn Moedinger (42:04):
Real complications, real delays, and just very agonizing. I mean, it's something we've said a million times, too, it doesn't have to be this way.It just doesn't.
And I know that sometimes it can seem like when people do hire a designer and architect and they spend the money for it and all that kind of stuff and things go pretty smoothly, they're like, “Oh, well, I could have done this without them.”
Like, “No, the reason it went smoothly is because they were there.”You didn't see all the disasters that were averted because they didn't happen.
Sheri Scott (42:40):
And the other thing that I will say is that having a third party on site in those- what we would have as weekly meetings which we talked a little bit about, it just kind of serves two purposes to me.
It keeps people honest because they're not going to tell you what is the easiest and say, “Oh, this is the only way to do it, get on board or get out” kind of thing. And it keeps accountability.Every single week we're saying, “Okay, you said this last week, where is it?”
Or even better, it just makes it go smoother because the contractors and the subcontractors, it all rolls downhill and they all know, “Well, we're having a meeting on Tuesday, we better get this done and figured out before that meeting. Because remember last week, we didn't have an answer.”
So, there's so many things that it helps. And I'm not saying we control the subs at all. But when you have a process and you have something on paper and you know people are coming every single week, it magically goes smoother.
Marilyn Moedinger (43:49):
It keeps the, for lack of a better word, pressure on the situation. Everybody gets things done faster when there's a deadline. And the same goes for us, too.
So, when I have a pile of stuff on my desk during construction that's about a certain project, if I've got a job site meeting the next day, I'm cranking through that stuff to make sure that it's done and ready to go for that meeting.
If there wasn't a meeting the next day, would I be putting the same level of priority on it? No, that's human nature.I'm going to put the priority on the thing that is sort of got the most organization to it, the most pressure to it, and that kind of stuff.
I also really liked her point about instant gratification. That's something I've been thinking about.And I think as we venture further into the impacts of AI on our processes of designing and that kind of thing, I think it's going to become even more of a conversation.
So, now, we're seeing it where someone sends us an AI rendering or says, “Well, AI can design this, I don't need you.”And I'm like, okay, well, design is a big part of what we do, and I don't want to get into an AI conversation just now. It's a little off topic for what we're talking about now.
But the point is that AI might make the rendering, but it's not doing all the other stuff that Cami was bringing up.So, dealing with the management or figuring out why the sink isn't available or whatever.
And it's also the sense that everything's available instantly. Just have AI do it.Just order it from Amazon. And that's not the reality when you're dealing with these projects. It's just not.And the more people sort of are getting used to that and expect that, the more shocking it is for them to enter into a process where that's not true.
Sheri Scott (45:35):
And even more reason to have processes and realistic timelines, and sit down at the beginning and not just say, “Oh, yeah, I'll tear these walls out next week and then we'll get going.”
Let's figure out where the sink is coming from. Let's figure that out before we order our countertops and before we get a glossy sink instead of a matte sink. Those are big deals and they're setbacks.
They're setbacks emotionally, they're setbacks time-wise, they're setbacks financially and they're really small things, but they all add up into … I mean, this is a kitchen renovation and she thinks it's going to end up taking six months.
Marilyn Moedinger (46:18):
Yeah, it's wild. I think that's another point. So, she mentioned she worked with a draftsman at the beginning, which is fine.That's a viable way to work. But what was not included with those drawings was all the selections. And that's the part that takes the longest sometimes.
Because when you're doing the selections, and by that what we mean is the colors of things, the actual countertop material, the actual light fixtures, the actual plumbing fixtures, the actual sink, the actual appliances – when you just have placeholders in there, you still have a ton of work to do to figure out exactly what that thing is that goes there.
And by the way, suddenly if that 43-inch sink or whatever she's sort of talking about is not available and we need to do a 36-inch sink, well, that means that we have to change all the cabinetry.
So, I want to know that at the beginning. I want to have that figured out at the beginning. And I think a lot of contractors take a drafted set of drawings and say, “Well, this looks done.”And they're like, “We'll do the selections along the way.” Well, that does not work.
Sheri Scott (47:24):
It does not work.
Marilyn Moedinger (47:26):
Because all those selections impact the design.
Sheri Scott (47:29):
I know. And maybe we do a disservice using the word selections, which is just jargon, but it's not only selecting what you like. Because she even said, “Oh, I thought I could do it because I know what I like.I know what holds its value, I know all these things. And most of the people I work with also know what they want it to look like and what colors they like.”
It's not that. It is, does it fit your budget? Can you get it in the timeline?Does the sink fit in the cabinet that you have under it? There are so many things that get coordinated with that among different subs.
And the contractor has some responsibility in that, but the selections process is not just picking out what you like on the storyboard. Which, like we said, AI can do, any decorator can do that, anybody can pick out what they like.
Marilyn Moedinger (48:30):
That's paint by numbers and that's not what's going on here.
Sheri Scott (48:33):
Not in a custom.
Marilyn Moedinger (48:34):
It's custom.Even when it's just a kitchen, there's thousands of decisions in the kitchen.
Sheri Scott (48:39):
So many things, it's a big one.
Marilyn Moedinger (48:41):
It is. And I think your point about us calling it selections is a really valid one because that makes it sound as if it's just painting by number, picking one thing or the other.It's kind of like when people get a car and they're getting a new car and they say, “Okay, well, I want this model and this make. Do you want the tan interior or do you want the gray interior?” And it's a selection, you're done.
But in our world, if you choose the tan versus the gray, maybe the tan is going to take an extra six months. And if you choose that, then that's going to change the size of the — well, then we can only fit four seats in the car instead of six or whatever. Maybe there's other implications.
It isn't just paint by number. It isn't just selecting among very controlled, not like when you're working with a production builder, where those selections are very, very controlled because they all work with each other.
When you're in full custom mode, like if you work with a kitchen designer who says you have to choose from this stuff in this catalog, then yeah, it is just selecting. But if you're going full custom and you've got your sink from over here and your sub-zero from over there and your countertops from 45 minutes away and whatever else, then yeah, someone's got to pull all that together.
Sheri Scott (50:02):
And your gold faucet and your gold poles, are they the same gold? Like there are 25 different golds. So, there's so much, there's so much to coordinate.
Marilyn Moedinger (50:15):
That leads to one of her last points that she made, which was about, she suggested getting three different quotes from different designers who have different levels of service.
Sheri Scott (50:27):
Different levels of service and see what you want to pay for and what they offer.Yes, I liked that a lot.
Marilyn Moedinger (50:33):
Because we're always saying around here. We are not saying that everybody needs full custom. Like you can work with a draftsman, but if you do, you have to understand the what you're getting. You have to set your expectations, and you have to understand that full service, if you aren't paying for full service, somebody else is doing that work.
And so, I appreciated that. And I think what I would add to that is just that people are realistic about their time commitment, their ability to make decisions, if they're working in kids and whatever else, do they really have 20 hours a week, or, well, that's what it would take us, but it's going to take them 60 because they've got to learn all this stuff. And that feeling that they don't know if it's the right decision or not, it's not good.
So, anyway, on that note (laughs) …
Sheri Scott (51:32):
So, I do. I wish her so much luck. It seems like she has a good outlook on it now. I'm sure she's had very emotional moments because it can be a very emotional process, especially when things aren't going well and they're in your home. So, it sounds like her path forward is really just kind of hanging on and getting through it.
Well, thanks for joining us on Home: The Second Story.If you'd like to come on the show and share your story, email us at admin@htsspodcast.com. We'd love to have you as a guest. Be sure to rate and subscribe wherever you get podcasts and follow us on Instagram. We'll see you next time.
[Music Playing]
Voiceover (52:13)
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